The Reason You are Told that God No Longer Speaks.

[notuptome]

Tongues are the healing of languages, what happened at babel was not speaking in tongues but confusion of the languages until that time all spoke the same language,

I have been saying that Babel was the confusion of language upon mankind. This was a judgment of God upon mankind. Any Jew would have know tongues as a sign of impending judgment. Jews experienced judgment through captivity by men who spoke in a different tongue. Bible students know the importance of the first appearance of an event. That is why Babel is important in understanding tongues in the NT.

I disagree that tongues are the healing of languages because the languages remain unchanged.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

Acts 19 those men had heard and believed John's message of the coming Messiah. They had not as yet received Jesus as the Christ of Whom John spoke.

The truth that believing the message and receiving the Holy Ghost are two separate experiences is clear from Paul's question AND the very scene depicted in Acts 19. Paul tells them they must be re-baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. They believe it and do it.

NOTICE it is not until after their compliance that they receive the Holy Ghost. (see Acts 19:6)

Acts 19:2-6
"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

Luke 13 Jesus is speaking of the future fulfillment of Joel 2.

Matt 7:7-8 states that EVERYONE that asks will receive. This debunks the idea that Jesus' words in Luke 11:13 refer only to the initial infilling at Pentecost:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" Matthew 7:7-11

You should ask these things at home.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Now this comment is very funny.

If you really cared to understand that particular scripture a honest study would straighten out your lopsided thinking.

 

[notuptome]

The truth that believing the message and receiving the Holy Ghost are two separate experiences is clear from Paul's question AND the very scene depicted in Acts 19. Paul tells them they must be re-baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. They believe it and do it.

NOTICE it is not until after their compliance that they receive the Holy Ghost. (see Acts 19:6)

Acts 19:2-6
"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

How can you quote the passage and not have even a glimmer of understanding what it is boldly declaring?

Matt 7:7-8 states that EVERYONE that asks will receive. This debunks the idea that Jesus' words in Luke 11:13 refer only to the initial infilling at Pentecost:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" Matthew 7:7-11

Again you seem totally incapable of understanding what the scripture is saying. The Holy Spirit had not yet been given in Luke 11 so what Jesus is telling them is a future event. Same event in Mat 7 and the Jews present did not grasp what was said.

Now this comment is very funny.

If you really cared to understand that particular scripture a honest study would straighten out your lopsided thinking.

It is a biblical admonition. Given your theology it is quite appropriate. 1 Cor 14:35

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

It says so a few times. One is here.
“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?” Hebrews 2:3–4 (KJV 1900)

Notice the past tense. How many times can you find any of the gifts available in Acts? They only came through the two outpourings or through an Apostle's hands. As Hebrews says, they confirmed an Apostle's calling.

You are failing to separate scripture that speaks of:
1. Receiving the gift of the actual Holy Spirit/Ghost.
2. Gifts distributed to and through individuals after they have been indwelt with God's Holy Spirit/Ghost.

1. Everyone must receive the gift of the actual Holy Spirit in order to be reborn spiritually.
2. God then distributes various gifts through His children to fulfill His purposes prior to Jesus' second coming.

Rightly dividing the word of truth is essential in order for one to get understanding. (2 Tim. 2:15)

 

[Dave-L]

You are failing to separate scripture that speaks of:
1. Receiving the gift of the actual Holy Spirit/Ghost.
2. Gifts distributed to and through individuals after they have been indwelt with God's Holy Spirit/Ghost.

1. Everyone must receive the gift of the actual Holy Spirit in order to be reborn spiritually.
2. God then distributes various gifts through His children to fulfill His purposes prior to Jesus' second coming.

Rightly dividing the word of truth is essential in order for one to get understanding. (2 Tim. 2:15)

All believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit since Pentecost. The gifts, tongues, prophecy healing, etc. came only through the Apostle's hands or in the two outpourings.

 

[Wansvic]

How can you quote the passage and not have even a glimmer of understanding what it is boldly declaring?

Again you seem totally incapable of understanding what the scripture is saying. The Holy Spirit had not yet been given in Luke 11 so what Jesus is telling them is a future event. Same event in Mat 7 and the Jews present did not grasp what was said.

It is a biblical admonition. Given your theology it is quite appropriate. 1 Cor 14:35

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You clearly did not bother to read my responses. Or, something is blinding you to the truth. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the points I made are exactly what the scriptures convey.

 

[Wansvic]

All believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit since Pentecost. The gifts, tongues, prophecy healing, etc. came only through the Apostle's hands or in the two outpourings.

Please provide scripture that backs up your claim.

 

[notuptome]

You clearly did not bother to read my responses. Or, something is blinding you to the truth. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the points I made are exactly what the scriptures convey.

You have it all wrong. I'm not the one who is blinded to the truth. Your theology is akin to the Pharisees and that is why you do not comprehend the truth. The Pharisees quoted scripture and Jesus refuted them by their own scriptures.

It does require a believing heart to understand the scriptures. A believing heart takes the scriptures for what they say and does not endeavor to change them to say what the unbelieving heart desires.

You are to ask these questions at home.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dave-L]

Please provide scripture that backs up your claim.

There is none that says people gave out the gifts or they came through prayer. It only shows the Apostles distributed them through their hands. Or through the two outpourings.
“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:18 (KJV 1900)

 

[garee]

Most people are honest enough to admit that they are (or at least were) "blind". In other words, we admit that we didn't know God, or had difficulty understanding what is really being said in the bible. And although perhaps embarrassed, we were humble enough to receive instruction from someone who is willing to guide us.

Then, at some point, we met someone who said "Hey, you need to know about God (or Jesus). Let me teach you."

And we said "Ok. That sounds good." And we began to let them lead us, or perhaps to take us to someone even more knowledgeable. And they began to teach us how to "see" certain scriptures.

However, there is a danger hidden within this scenario, and Jesus warns us about it. He said "If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

The question becomes "Wow, that's a scary thought. How could I find out if the person that leads me is blind?"

Well, you could ask the person leading you how to recognize a "blind leader". And I almost guarantee that they will give you an answer that does not point at him or herself as a blind leader.

What most will do is to point you to the scriptures to find the answers....encouraging you to revisit the scriptures they've told you are the most important ones... and that they've been teaching you how to interpret. Please don't miss the importance of the previous sentence. They know what you will find if you look at the scriptures the way they have taught you.

Now you're left with a problem.... How can you know the TRUTH if you may have been taught to "see" by the blind?

If you look at the scriptures by the way you were taught, you will only find the answers you’ve been taught to find...“Seeing” the scriptures through the eyes of your leaders, whether they are blind or not.

If you try to look at the scriptures without what you’ve been taught, you’re only left with yourself...and you’ve already admitted that you were blind before learning from your leaders.

So what should you do about this problem?

Simple… When we can’t “see” and don’t know who to trust, we need to directly ask the only person we can truly trust (God) until he answers.

God cannot lie. And he will only speak truth...even about your leaders. If they are blind leaders, God would tell that truth to you if you ever gain the ability to hear from God directly...and THAT is the reason you are told that God no longer speaks.

Does God speak? Yes. He says “My sheep hear my voice”. And he cannot lie. <--that means he still speaks and at least some still hear..

So... Have you heard his voice? If not, you should be asking sincerely why not, and how you can. But I recommend that you ask the one you can trust, not the ones you should have asked about before trusting them with your eternity. (You need to go to God, not man...not even me, if you REALLY want to know the truth.)

BTW, Just because you can’t see clearly doesn’t mean you can’t hear.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

“He that hath an ear, let him hear.”

Thanks

I would say we offer our food as our understanding which comes when we each seek the approval of God. We share it with others. Chew or mediate on both . In that way we can be careful when entertaining strangers. God could be sending you or the stranger. Both are needed to hear the message of the other. His spiritual gifts work in that way. Two used to edify the one God working in them both comforting both .

In that way we taste and see that God alone is good. And not whether we are the Good Master. Even Jesus resisted that and said in effect; "one is our Good Master, our Father in heaven. Why call me Good Master according to what the eyes see?

I think that can be shown with Jesus the prophet apostle sent by the father as a living parable . Not my will . He performed the will of the unseen father and yet was without sin .

Jesus refused to do the will of his corrupted flesh, just as our goal . Not of the flesh. Jesus said of his own it profits for zero.

What did profit is the unseen work of the father working in the Jesus body of death giving it spirit life. No father, no Son.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[garee]

There is none that says people gave out the gifts or they came through prayer. It only shows the Apostles distributed them through their hands. Or through the two outpourings.
“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:18 (KJV 1900)

One outpouring .One Holy Spirit pouring out Spirit life on the dead flesh. Not in respect to the corrupted flesh of mankind. (apostle)

for some reason you keep changing the meaning of the word apostle "sent one". The same word used if you were to send a person to the grocery store with a written list. No power comes from the corrupted hands of the apostles .

When that kind of idea is formed; " Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” other in Acts 14 made the apostles gods in the likeness of me. why ignore the teachings in order to change the meaning of the word. ?

Apostle sent one to show god is not served with corrupted human hands in any way shape or form . The Holy Spirit sent and poured out His Spirit on Balaam's Ass. . used to represent unbelief, faithless mankind, The the word of the tongue the Spirit of rebuked the madness of the false apostle Balaam

Of course they come through prayer. God working in us given us a desire to do His will. He knows what we need beforehand. Its where we find the hidden treasures can we find the power to preform it.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

No power from the corrupted hands of the mercury (Paul) or Jupiter ( Barnabas) .

Its the words that are preached the Gospel. It can quicken our soul

And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 7-12

 

[Dino246]

There is none that says people gave out the gifts or they came through prayer. It only shows the Apostles distributed them through their hands. Or through the two outpourings.
“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:18 (KJV 1900)

You have built your view on a fallacy. The narrow, one-time perspective of an unsaved charlatan is not the sound, exhaustive doctrine of the Holy Spirit. That Simon "saw" that the Holy Spirit was given by the laying on of hands does not preclude His filling of people outside of that means. That He filled Cornelius and his companions without touch refutes your position completely.

 

[Dave-L]

One outpouring .One Holy Spirit pouring out Spirit life on the dead flesh. Not in respect to the corrupted flesh of mankind. (apostle)

for some reason you keep changing the meaning of the word apostle "sent one". The same word used if you were to send a person to the grocery store with a written list. No power comes from the corrupted hands of the apostles .

When that kind of idea is formed; " Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” other in Acts 14 made the apostles gods in the likeness of me. why ignore the teachings in order to change the meaning of the word. ?

Apostle sent one to show god is not served with corrupted human hands in any way shape or form . The Holy Spirit sent and poured out His Spirit on Balaam's Ass. . used to represent unbelief, faithless mankind, The the word of the tongue the Spirit of rebuked the madness of the false apostle Balaam

Of course they come through prayer. God working in us given us a desire to do His will. He knows what we need beforehand. Its where we find the hidden treasures can we find the power to preform it.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

No power from the corrupted hands of the mercury (Paul) or Jupiter ( Barnabas) .

Its the words that are preached the Gospel. It can quicken our soul

And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 7-12

All you need to do is prove a third way the charismatic gifts of the Spirit came about. Scripture mentions only the Apostle's hands or the two outpourings.

 

[KelbyofGod]

If God did still speak to us, than Jesus would have told us that. But He said "it is finished", so if anyone needs to add to His finished work or looks for new revelation then they're being deceived by Demons.

The new testament was written after Jesus said "It is finished".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[notuptome]

The new testament was written after Jesus said "It is finished".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Wow there is a total disconnect.

What did Jesus finish on the cross?

1 Cor 14:35

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

You have it all wrong. I'm not the one who is blinded to the truth. Your theology is akin to the Pharisees and that is why you do not comprehend the truth. The Pharisees quoted scripture and Jesus refuted them by their own scriptures.

It does require a believing heart to understand the scriptures. A believing heart takes the scriptures for what they say and does not endeavor to change them to say what the unbelieving heart desires.

You are to ask these questions at home.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What I stated was directly from the scripture. Paul laid hands upon the Ephesus disciples in order for them to receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost AFTER they believed and were re-baptized in water in the name of Jesus. (Acts 19:2-6) Please provide evidence from that account that says otherwise.

 

[Blain]

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” John 6:63 (KJV 1900)

I don’t recall the spirit calling other believers crazy

 

[Wansvic]

You are to ask these questions at home.

I see you haven't yet taken the time to study out the word definitions contained in that scripture.

It's rather comical that an individual would think women are not used in ministry by God. The most important message in the entire bible was carried to the disciples by a woman. Guess Jesus didn't get your memo.

 

[Wansvic]

There is none that says people gave out the gifts or they came through prayer. It only shows the Apostles distributed them through their hands. Or through the two outpourings.
“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:18 (KJV 1900)

The scripture you quote concerns one receiving the actual GIFT of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the GIFT given by God as promised in Acts 2:39.

The spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians flow from people who have previously been infilled with the GIFT of the Holy Ghost. Big difference.

 

[Blain]

God has not spoken to any person for 2000 years. He has already said everything He wanted to say and no more will be given to us in this life.
The canon of Scripture was closed when Jesus gave His revelation to John.

God's Word is alive and eternal, so we have the same gospel message as those in the first century. God's Word speaks to every believer, so in that sense He does still speak but only to believers.

We must be very careful with those who claim to have conversations with God, because Satan appears as an angel of light to deceive people.

If God did still speak to us, than Jesus would have told us that. But He said "it is finished", so if anyone needs to add to His finished work or looks for new revelation then they're being deceived by Demons.

Jesus didn't reveal everything in the last book of the Bible, He actually instructed John not to record everything that He revealed because we're not ready to handle the whole truth of revelation yet. Believers will be given a lot more revelation in the life to come.

As for correctly interpreting Scripture, that's not important at all. God doesn't judge anyone by their mental capacity, to interpret scriptures. The vast majority of saved people never read a single word of the Bible, we are saved by believing in Jesus and nothing else can be added to that.

Jesus said, "believe in Me and ye shall be saved" He never attached any conditions to it. If He said believe in me and if you crack the code of scripture and ye shall be saved, then we'd be looking at a different gospel.

Jesus also said his sheep know he voice and the spirit confirms what is spoken in the word if you heard the spirit then you har him but if you only hear the spirit by reading the bible then how do you interact with other God throughout the day when you aren’t reading? When you pray is it a one day ay communication? When you listen to a sermon is it a message of man or is it a confirmation of his word?

When you are in that still quiet place with him is his presence not also a form of him speaking to your soul?