The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[Truth7t7]

Hello again and good morning. It is quite impossible (For me anyways) to do justice to a useful treatment of the rapture on a message board. The problem is it becomes very disjointed on a message board and incoherent. I commend you to Chuck Missler. Though I do not agree with everything that Chuck says his treatment of the rapture (and time eschatology) is superior and cannot be improved upon. Chuck is the master of end time eschatology.
The big advantage to YouTube videos is that you can rewinding review rewinding review until it sinks in. So here you go!

Chuck Missler is dead and gone, a falseteachertgat promotedthe Nephilim, Angels and Humans proceeding.

 

[Moses_Young]

Chuck Missler is dead and gone, a falseteachertgat promotedthe Nephilim, Angels and Humans proceeding.

While I agree he was likely a false teacher (giving uncircumcised-in-heart Jews a platform to preach to believers) I'm not sure his views on the nephilim or angels/humans procreating were entirely unbiblical.

 

[cv5]

Chuck Missler is dead and gone, a falseteachertgat promotedthe Nephilim, Angels and Humans proceeding.

Oooohhhhh. You mean the scary Nephilim of Genesis chapter 6, Jude and first and second Peter? Who were killed by Moses, Chedorlaomer, Joshua, Edom and David?

Yeah he's right about all of that. And he certainly may be correct about what's going to happen in the future regarding the Nephilim

Don't forget Chuck is your boss never never forget about that. Lol.

Okay sorry to interrupt now you can chum with your apostate buddy KJV1611.

 

[Moses_Young]

This is a good example of the absurdity which is the mark of Preterism.

The Bible is very clear that God has allotted just 3 1/2 years (42 months, 1260 days, time, times, and half a time or the dividing of time) to the reign of the Antichrist. (time = 1 year + times = 2 years + half a time = 6 months.)

And he [the Antichrist] shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (Dan 7:25)

And there was given unto him [the Antichrist] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:5)

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. (Dan 12:7)

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (Rev 12:14)

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:2,3)

So to claim that he is has been around for over 2,000 years is total nonsense.

Is it possible the prophecy of Daniel was completed in 70AD, but the prophecy of Revelation is still to come? I know in some aspects they seem similar, but Daniel's prophecy had a commencement time component in it, and Revelation did not.

 

[cv5]

Is it possible the prophecy of Daniel was completed in 70AD, but the prophecy of Revelation is still to come? I know in some aspects they seem similar, but Daniel's prophecy had a commencement time component in it, and Revelation did not.

If you really want to know read Sir Robert Anderson's work The Coming Prince.
And beware of the amillennialists and preterists on this board they will drag you right to hell along with them.

Just a thought but it has been my observation that those who are going to heaven are dragging people to heaven it along with them. And those going to hell are dragging people to hell along with them just the same.

Beware.

 

[Moses_Young]

If you really want to know read Sir Robert Anderson's work The Coming Prince.
And beware of the amillennialists and preterists on this board they will drag you right to hell along with them.

Just a thought but it has been my observation that those who are going to heaven are dragging people to heaven it along with them. And those going to hell are dragging people to hell along with them just the same.

Beware.

Can you explain why this is a salvation issue? I thought salvation was by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone? Amillennialism/Preterism is surely only one's beliefs about past and future?

If you could summarise Sir Robert Anderson's work in a few sentences, I'd appreciate. My view of the bible is that it didn't need to wait nearly 2000 years for someone to write a book to be understood. I hope I don't come across as arrogant, but I'm sure you'll agree there are a lot of books written on this subject, and it would be helpful to understand why you believe a particular writer is correct, before I commit to reading his entire work. Thanks.

 

[bojack]

The measure of whether something happened or not is not that "we all know it." There are those who refuse the truth and do not know it then. There are those who are ignore, sometimes unwillingly or sometimes willingly. Jesus can speak of a future event that no one knows but once it is past, it can be known by those who seek the truth and have some means to find it out. Again, the measure of whether an event occured is not that we are all aware of it.

Something those who think the whole of Revelation is in the future do not think about is that when what they think will happen in ISrael happens, there is no assurance that it will be covered by the 6 o'clock news with live feed. IOW, if what is happening in the streets of Jerusalem are not known around the world today, when it is peaceful, certainly in a time when armies are surrounding it will not be a time when it will be known then.

We all either sleep in our grave waiting on Jesus or are the generation who are transformed and taken up alive waiting on Jesus .. Each generation but one experience their own end then die and sleep , we all are woke together .. For 2000 yrs born again Christians wait and when sleepy time is over we will all know and the angels who gather will know .. I don't know that there is a known day or hr until it all has been fulfilled .. I'm more inclined to believe in His grace and patience that God is waiting on a number of souls in mind and fulfilled than a particular hr ..

 

[cv5]

Can you explain why this is a salvation issue? I thought salvation was by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone? Amillennialism/Preterism is surely only one's beliefs about past and future?

If you could summarise Sir Robert Anderson's work in a few sentences, I'd appreciate. My view of the bible is that it didn't need to wait nearly 2000 years for someone to write a book to be understood. I hope I don't come across as arrogant, but I'm sure you'll agree there are a lot of books written on this subject, and it would be helpful to understand why you believe a particular writer is correct, before I commit to reading his entire work. Thanks.

IMO preterism and amillennialism is a direct violation of the command of Christ to watch wait and prepare for his soon coming. Furthermore heretics of that severity were always kicked out of the Church. So at worst you are an unsaved heretic or apostate, And at best you will be unprepared for the shout of the King, and you will go through the Great Tribulation.

Before I forget there is an damning element to preterism amillennialism, where many of the posters here on this thread despise Israel and the Jews. Personally I believe this is a sure sign of them being unsaved, because God makes it clear that he has eternal love for Israel, and those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit will surely love them as well.

Trust me when I tell you there are many many posters on this thread who are going to figuratively "miss the boat".

"Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will findwatching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them.
And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants."

Matthew 24:42
Matthew 24:43
Matthew 25:13
Mark 13:33
Mark 13:37
Luke 12:37
Luke 12:38
Luke 12:39
Luke 12:36

Philippians 3:20
1 Thessalonians 1:10
Hebrews 9:28
James 5:7

This compendium of scriptures is overwhelming. There are more. Ignore the attacks that are coming, and I pray you pay heed to the Scriptures.

 

[cv5]

The measure of whether something happened or not is not that "we all know it." There are those who refuse the truth and do not know it then. There are those who are ignore, sometimes unwillingly or sometimes willingly. Jesus can speak of a future event that no one knows but once it is past, it can be known by those who seek the truth and have some means to find it out. Again, the measure of whether an event occured is not that we are all aware of it.

Something those who think the whole of Revelation is in the future do not think about is that when what they think will happen in ISrael happens, there is no assurance that it will be covered by the 6 o'clock news with live feed. IOW, if what is happening in the streets of Jerusalem are not known around the world today, when it is peaceful, certainly in a time when armies are surrounding it will not be a time when it will be known then.

Wrong. It definitely will be known to those who are watching, and understand and pay heed to the Scriptures. It was for the believing Christians in 70 A.D., and it will be again. Furthermore prophecy is definitely known and understood by believing Holy Spirit indwelt Christians.

Which of course is exactly why YOU do NOT understand it!

 

[bojack]

While I agree he was likely a false teacher (giving uncircumcised-in-heart Jews a platform to preach to believers) I'm not sure his views on the nephilim or angels/humans procreating were entirely unbiblical.

Missler has some great stuff but I agree to not put all your eggs in his or anyone's basket ..

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

You’re joking right? Surly some unknown’s distain for Christians doesn’t classify as a “great tribulation” does it? Who is he anyway?

HAve you read Matthew 24 yourself? Have you read and re-read Luke 21 yourself? or do you just allow those who make money off the "end times" eschatology industry decide for you the meanings of such bible chapters?

 

[cv5]

Missler has some great stuff but I agree to not put all your eggs in his or anyone's basket ..

Totally agree. I picked up a lot of excellent teaching from several other teachers of various expertise.
Chuck just happens to be a specialist and expert end-time eschatology. As far as that goes anyone would do well to learn from Chuck.

 

[cv5]

While I agree he was likely a false teacher (giving uncircumcised-in-heart Jews a platform to preach to believers) I'm not sure his views on the nephilim or angels/humans procreating were entirely unbiblical.

Chuck was definitely pro Israel no doubt about that. But a false teacher? Nope. The vast majority of his Biblical exegesis is spot on, both Old and New Testament. On the other hand he did have certain opinions and they were definitely debatable. But these opinions were not doctrine.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Is it possible the prophecy of Daniel was completed in 70AD, but the prophecy of Revelation is still to come? I know in some aspects they seem similar, but Daniel's prophecy had a commencement time component in it, and Revelation did not.

Daniel's prophecy of seventy weeks is not directly related to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. However it is directly related to the Crucifixion of Christ in 30 AD.

A total of 490 years was assigned to this prophecy, and from the decree of Cyrus to rebuild Jerusalem until the Crucifixion a period of 483 years was completed. Which left seven years to be fulfilled in the future. The first half of those seven years were assigned to the future reign of the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years (during which he will set up the Abomination of Desolation). The remaining 3 1/2 years will be for the Great Tribulation.

The key to understanding this is the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24). Christ first accurately predicted the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. But then He went on to speak of the Abomination of Desolation (an idol) which would stand in the Holy Place within the temple. Following which there would be an unprecedented Great Tribulation.

People talk about Antiochus Epiphanes fulfilling this prophecy, but since Antiochus devastated Jerusalem and also sacrificed a pig in the temple in 168 BC, that is TOTALLY ABSURD. How could Christ prophesy about an event that was already past about 200 year before? So this is false. People also talk about Nero fulfilling this prophecy, and once again that is absurd. Nero never entered Jerusalem.

 

[cv5]

Can you explain why this is a salvation issue? I thought salvation was by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone? Amillennialism/Preterism is surely only one's beliefs about past and future?

If you could summarise Sir Robert Anderson's work in a few sentences, I'd appreciate. My view of the bible is that it didn't need to wait nearly 2000 years for someone to write a book to be understood. I hope I don't come across as arrogant, but I'm sure you'll agree there are a lot of books written on this subject, and it would be helpful to understand why you believe a particular writer is correct, before I commit to reading his entire work. Thanks.

Rather than having me over compressed the topic, I would urge you to simply watch this video.
It's definitely going to get you on the right track and prevent you from falling into the trap of various heresies.

 

[cv5]

Daniel's prophecy of seventy weeks is not directly related to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. However it is directly related to the Crucifixion of Christ in 30 AD.

A total of 490 years was assigned to this prophecy, and from the decree of Cyrus to rebuild Jerusalem until the Crucifixion a period of 483 years was completed. Which left seven years to be fulfilled in the future. The first half of those seven years were assigned to the future reign of the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years (during which he will set up the Abomination of Desolation). The remaining 3 1/2 years will be for the Great Tribulation.

The key to understanding this is the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24). Christ first accurately predicted the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. But then He went on to speak of the Abomination of Desolation (an idol) which would stand in the Holy Place within the temple. Following which there would be an unprecedented Great Tribulation.

People talk about Antiochus Epiphanes fulfilling this prophecy, but since Antiochus devastated Jerusalem and also sacrificed a pig in the temple in 168 BC, that is TOTALLY ABSURD. How could Christ prophesy about an event that was already past about 200 year before? So this is false. People also talk about Nero fulfilling this prophecy, and once again that is absurd. Nero never entered Jerusalem.

I see it slightly differently than you do. The starting gun of the Dan 9 prophecy is the command of Artaxerxes Longimanus of 445 BC (Neh ch 2) to build the city and the wall. The termination point of the 69 weeks is the triumphal entry so-called. The span of time is precisely 173,880 days.
The 70th week of course is yet future.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This was not addressed earlier. Israel was redeemed and restored to God’s people from the time of Jesus’ ministry to the fall of Jerusalem. When else?

You have is BACKWARDS.

Because the Jews (in general) rejected Jesus of Nazareth as their Messiah/King, God brought severe judgments on Judea, Jerusalem, and the Jews through the Romans culminating in 70 AD. Following that the Jews were scattered throughout the Roman Empire, and the land of Judea was left desolate.

But if you will kindly study the prophecies pertaining to the future of Israel (the nation as well as the land), you will note that AFTER the Second Coming of Christ Jerusalem and Israel will be thoroughly purged and purified, and a believing remnant of the twelve tribes will be settled in greater Israel for eternity.

One would have to go through the entire Old Testament to see why the apostles asked Christ this question just before His ascension: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? (Acts 1:6)

 

[biker]

Wrong. It definitely will be known to those who are watching, and understand and pay heed to the Scriptures. It was for the believing Christians in 70 A.D., and it will be again. Furthermore prophecy is definitely known and understood by believing Holy Spirit indwelt Christians.

Which of course is exactly why YOU do NOT understand it!

I find it hard to believe anyone can be filled with the Holy Spirit and believe in preterism. The Holy Spirit confirms every action, every word, every meaning of Jesus Christ when He was on Earth. The Holy Spirit confirms prophecy fulfilled and to come. And I am not trying to make any claims here one way or another, but if you are truly filled with God's Holy Spirit, it's literally impossible to believe the preterist way!

 

[Ahwatukee]

This was not addressed earlier. Israel was redeemed and restored to God’s people from the time of Jesus’ ministry to the fall of Jerusalem. When else?

How could you claim that Israel was redeemed and restored? They didn't believe that Jesus was their Messiah then and still don't till this very day. And the Lord will be dealing with them during the tribulation period regarding this issue. Those Israelites who did and do believe in Jesus as Messiah belong to the church. The unbelieving nation of Israel who do not believe in Jesus as their Messiah, is who God is going to be dealing with during the tribulation and specifically the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. At some point during that time, regarding Jesus they are going to say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

 

[Nehemiah6]

The starting gun of the Dan 9 prophecy is the command of Artaxerxes Longimanus of 445 BC (Neh ch 2) to build the city and the wall.

The only problem with this is that Artaxerxes did not give a COMMANDMENT.
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:... (Dan 9:25,26)

When we turn to Nehemiah we see that Artaxerxes gave permission to a request from Nehemiah: And the king said unto me, (the queen also sitting by him,) For how long shall thy journey be? and when wilt thou return? So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time. (Neh 2:6)