Catholicism vs Protestantism

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Jackson123 said:
My opinion is, God tell Daniel there will be 4 major King or Nation, from the time He talk to Daniel to the end time.
And the last kingdom is leopard.
Click to expand...

I would offer the gospel in not after the respect of the corrupted flesh of nations The gospel is not about corrupted flesh and blood men that do not know God as political nations. The gospel is the gospel of truth .

Its not things seen that we wrestles against or do we receive power from it . Like Jesus we have the treasure in us but not of the will or lust of the flesh But the will of the father that works in us with us making our load lighter. Our cry like His father not as I will but according to the power of yours

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
 
garee said:
I would offer the gospel in not after the respect of the corrupted flesh of nations The gospel is not about corrupted flesh and blood men that do not know God as political nations. The gospel is the gospel of truth .

Its not things seen that we wrestles against or do we receive power from it . Like Jesus we have the treasure in us but not of the will or lust of the flesh But the will of the father that works in us with us making our load lighter. Our cry like His father not as I will but according to the power of yours

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Click to expand...
your post reminded me of
Matthew 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city located on a hill can't be hidden.

one question I like to ponder is
during the middle ages, where was the city that can't be hidden?
 
Jackson123 said:
Don't we want to know what happen now?

I don't know what is 1th to 3 th beast, It is in the past.

And Leonard is also in the past. Out of Leonard from rev 13
That is what we want to identified.

All I know from Daniel 7 and rev 13 tell the identification

Both mention 42 months
Click to expand...

Your views on this matter align with the interpretation of Daniel 7 from "gotquestions.org".
Please read their entire interpretation of Daniel 7. Visit link below:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Daniel-four-beasts.html

Let me know when you have read it completely, then perhaps we can go from there.
This way we can get on the same page.
 
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Dan_473 said:
I believe it starts with
Romans 10:2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

do you agree that Jews have a zeal for God?
Click to expand...

Wich jews

I agree with Jesus

John5
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
 
Dan_473 said:
it could be.

I think it shows that Paul appointed Titus, who appointed other people.

was that system supposed to continue indefinitely, as the current leaders died?
or was it supposed to stop at some point?
Click to expand...
1. It from Oaul not Peter
2. It is my personal believe I don't speak for other, that RCC is not Christian, so that vers is not for RCC
3. It is my respon to my Benadam that say God apointed RCC as a boss,
 
Jackson123 said:
Wich jews

I agree with Jesus

John5
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Click to expand...
isn't it, like, 3 a.m. in Indonesia?
when do you sleep? :)

***************
which Jews does Romans 10:2 refer to?

the larger context
Romans 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brothers' sake, my relatives according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites; whose is the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service, and the promises.

so that's Paul's physical brothers and sisters, in the sense of physical Israel.

I believe the context continues, the same Israel is spoken of here
Romans 10:1 Brothers, my heart's desire and my prayer to God is for Israel, that they may be saved. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
 
Dan_473 said:
isn't it, like, 3 a.m. in Indonesia?
when do you sleep? :)

***************
which Jews does Romans 10:2 refer to?

the larger context
Romans 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brothers' sake, my relatives according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites; whose is the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service, and the promises.

so that's Paul's physical brothers and sisters, in the sense of physical Israel.

I believe the context continues, the same Israel is spoken of here
Romans 10:1 Brothers, my heart's desire and my prayer to God is for Israel, that they may be saved. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Click to expand...

Yep, It is Paul physical brother, but acvording to Jesus, they aren't believe Moses, mean aren't believe God.
 
Nebuchadnezzer said:
Your views on this matter align with the interpretation of Daniel 7 from "gotquestions.org".
Please read their entire interpretation of Daniel 7. Visit link below:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Daniel-four-beasts.html

Let me know when you have read it completely, then perhaps we can go from there.
This way we can get on the same page.
Click to expand...

So far, I am ok with this interpretation.
Let me quote how long the antichrist Will be in power
Quote

The good news is that the reign of the Antichrist is limited: forty-two months, and no more. Then, God promises to judge the little horn.

End quote

Seem this time limit is from the bible, that make me believe the antichrist not in power yet.
 
Jackson123 said:
It from Oaul not Peter
Click to expand...
that's right! Paul appointed Titus, Titus appointed others.

was the system supposed to stop there?
or was it to continue indefinitely?

I don't know.
but if it was to continue indefinitely, where is it?
 
garee said:
I would offer the gospel in not after the respect of the corrupted flesh of nations The gospel is not about corrupted flesh and blood men that do not know God as political nations. The gospel is the gospel of truth .

Its not things seen that we wrestles against or do we receive power from it . Like Jesus we have the treasure in us but not of the will or lust of the flesh But the will of the father that works in us with us making our load lighter. Our cry like His father not as I will but according to the power of yours

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Click to expand...

I agree, It doesn't mean we hate catholic brother, but to love them must show them that they are victim of the devil teaching. Jesus love them but the devil hate them and mislead them, direct them to hell, not heaven
 
Dan_473 said:
Okay, do you agree with Paul that they have a zeal for God?
Click to expand...

I am not interprate in letter, but I compare with what Jesus say
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

It is my personal believe that Jesus never lie

Jesus say they aren't believe Moses, don't believe Jesus, why they have zeal for true God.
And Paul also say

10 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

I don't think a man have zeal to God but not submit to God
 
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Jackson123 said:
My brother, catholic is not the church of Jesus
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Brother in Christ,
I believe that there is a Church in the world that has preserved the Gospel faithfully and is teaching truth without error. That is what the Church was in the beginning, I believe is now and will be until Christ returns.
For me to believe what you posted a convincing alternative would have to be pointed out.
 
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Benadam said:
Brother in Christ,
I believe that there is a Church in the world that has preserved the Gospel faithfully and is teaching truth without error. That is what the Church was in the beginning, I believe is now and will be until Christ returns.
For me to believe what you posted a convincing alternative would have to be pointed out.
Click to expand...
That church must teach what Jesus teach, and what church is that brother?
 
Jackson123 said:
That church must teach what Jesus teach, and what church is that brother?
Click to expand...
The Church that is in communion with the successor of the See of Peter.
That is the Church the Scriptures document and lives up to it's mission as the primary obstacle to the evil forces in the world that attack Faith in Christ.
 
Jackson123 said:
So far, I am ok with this interpretation.
Let me quote how long the antichrist Will be in power
Quote

The good news is that the reign of the Antichrist is limited: forty-two months, and no more. Then, God promises to judge the little horn.

End quote

Seem this time limit is from the bible, that make me believe the antichrist not in power yet.
Click to expand...

Great, we are on the same page.

Notice with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd beasts they used the historicist method.
They are only able to interpret these visions by matching up the features of each beast with the historical record of the corresponding empire. They do a great job in correctly interpreting the first three beasts, and they do it in a concise fashion.


Why the Historicist View is Correct:
Biblical prophesies are obscure and cannot be understood on their own. The visions of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd beasts could not be properly interpreted without the historical record. To understand these obscure prophesies they must be matched with another witness or testimony to determine their truth and meaning. This other witness or testimony is the historical record.

History is a witness to bible prophesy and bible prophesy is a prediction and witness to history.

So look back again to the link and see for yourself that they in fact used the historicist view for 1st, 2nd and 3rd beasts. https://www.gotquestions.org/Daniel-four-beasts.html

Then we will talk about their interpretation of the 4th beast.
 
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Nebuchadnezzer said:
Great, we are on the same page.

Notice with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd beasts they used the historicist method.
They are only able to interpret these visions by matching up the features of each beast with the historical record of the corresponding empire. They do a great job in correctly interpreting the first three beasts, and they do it in a concise fashion.


Why the Historicist View is Correct:
Biblical prophesies are obscure and cannot be understood on their own. The visions of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd beasts could not be properly interpreted without the historical record. To understand these obscure prophesies they must be matched with another witness or testimony to determine their truth and meaning. This other witness or testimony is the historical record.

History is a witness to bible prophesy and bible prophesy is a prediction and witness to history.

So look back again to the link and see for yourself that they in fact used the historicist view for 1st, 2nd and 3rd beasts. https://www.gotquestions.org/Daniel-four-beasts.html

Then we will talk about their interpretation of the 4th beast.
Click to expand...

Yep, they learn history and they believe God must talk about the biggest country, for Example Lion, It must be the symbol of the biggest country or the most influence country that era, and historian found that country is Babel.

And in the last time, Will come 2 beast out of combination from 1th to 4 th beast, I believe It is Pope, because Pope can be from every where.
 
Benadam said:
Brother in Christ,
I believe that there is a Church in the world that has preserved the Gospel faithfully and is teaching truth without error. That is what the Church was in the beginning, I believe is now and will be until Christ returns.
For me to believe what you posted a convincing alternative would have to be pointed out.
Click to expand...


There is no alternative to the living abiding word of God as it is written (sola scriptura)

There is a law of God that has reserved the gospel. Abel, the first apostle, prophet and martyr . He is one of the lively stones that make up the spiritual house of God the church. Christ the corner stone of faith as the Christians one source by which they can hear God not seen .

Catholisicim makes the claim of serving two Good Masters .Making one without effect seeing no man can serve two.
 
Jackson123 said:
Yep, they learn history and they believe God must talk about the biggest country, for Example Lion, It must be the symbol of the biggest country or the most influence country that era, and historian found that country is Babel.

And in the last time, Will come 2 beast out of combination from 1th to 4 th beast, I believe It is Pope, because Pope can be from every where.
Click to expand...

There interpretations on 1st, 2nd and 3rd beast are spot on,
but their interpretation of the 4th beast is lacking.
  1. They make no attempt to match the 10 horns with the historical record of the roman empire.
  2. They make no attempt to match the 3 uprooted horns with the historical record of the roman empire.
  3. They go from the Greek Empire, to the Roman empire, leap frogging over the Roman Republic.
Why?
Because their approach to interpretation has changed. It has changed from a historicist approach to a futuristic approach. They jam these two approaches together by their use of the 4th beast. This error in their approach has caused them to gloss over some of the important descriptions of the 4th beast and therefore they have wrongly interpreted what the 4th beast represents.

The correct interpretation for the 4th beast is the Roman Republic, not the Roman Empire.

Once they went off the rails on the interpretation of the 4th beast they continue off the rails with their future predictions of the little horn.

Why Futuristic View is Incorrect:
The bible is not a crystal ball for predicting future historical events. Why? Because the bible works on witness and testimony. The making of future predictions is neither a witness nor a testimony to the biblical prophesies. Instead there is only witness and testimony to the prophesies once they are fulfilled by historical events.


To correct their mistake on the identification of the 4th beast an adherence to the historicist method must be kept.
 
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