"Not by works" - false!
- Thread starter DBurrage
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No, I do not believe that, and that's not what this thread is saying (despite the admittedly confusing title) 
I would like to contend that the notion that salvation is given to us ONLY in return for believing in Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior is INCOMPLETE.
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There’s a difference between keeping God’s commands out of love and reverence, and keeping His commands out of fear of not obtaining salvation or losing salvation.
I believe you’re catching flack because it really does seem you’re pushing the latter even though you deny doing so. Heck, even your thread title is confrontational.
I respect the passion everyone has here, including yours. I don’t want to argue with you so I’ll be glad to dialogue with you without arguing.
I believe you’re catching flack because it really does seem you’re pushing the latter even though you deny doing so. Heck, even your thread title is confrontational.
I respect the passion everyone has here, including yours. I don’t want to argue with you so I’ll be glad to dialogue with you without arguing.
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Ok I will clarify.
Christians are asked to do TWO things:
1. Believe in Jesus
2. Keep God's commandments (see below)
Christians have a duty to keep God's commandments:
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments"
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind".
We are not required to keep God's commandments perfectly in order to attain salvation.
In fact, we will not be able to perfectly keep God's commandments due to our imperfection.
Jesus makes up for this shortfall.
However, if as Christians we don't turn away from sin following receiving Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover those sins:
Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".
Other contributors to this thread have said that if a person who claims to be a Christian habitually willfully sins, then they were never a true Christian - I need to read up on that.
Christians are asked to do TWO things:
1. Believe in Jesus
2. Keep God's commandments (see below)
Christians have a duty to keep God's commandments:
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments"
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind".
We are not required to keep God's commandments perfectly in order to attain salvation.
In fact, we will not be able to perfectly keep God's commandments due to our imperfection.
Jesus makes up for this shortfall.
However, if as Christians we don't turn away from sin following receiving Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover those sins:
Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".
Other contributors to this thread have said that if a person who claims to be a Christian habitually willfully sins, then they were never a true Christian - I need to read up on that.
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It doesn’t matter what anyone says about anyone else; it only matters what God says about us. I believe you know that. For the record, I’m a habitual sinner; I drink, cuss, have sex with my girlfriend, etc.
Be that as it may, as a deer longs for flowing streams, so my soul longs for God. I have a contrite heart and profound passion to share the Gospel, and will gladly lay down my life in defense of the Gospel if ever need be.
Am I saved? Absolutely, because it’s not what I do, it’s what Jesus has done by placing all my sins upon Himself. We are fully saved by grace through faith.
Be that as it may, as a deer longs for flowing streams, so my soul longs for God. I have a contrite heart and profound passion to share the Gospel, and will gladly lay down my life in defense of the Gospel if ever need be.
Am I saved? Absolutely, because it’s not what I do, it’s what Jesus has done by placing all my sins upon Himself. We are fully saved by grace through faith.
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In light of you comment, perhaps @eternally-gratefull could shed some light on whether you're a true Christian, given what @eternally-gratefull said in the quote above...
And since you brought it up, I am going to tell you something!
It is sin to have sex outside of marriage! It does damage to the other person, and to yourself! Sexual sins are some of the biggest tricks of the Devil! And it is not OK for you go bragging about your sin!
Cussing - if you mean taking the name of the Lord in vain, How dare you? That is the one who saved me from sin, loves me, and gave His life for me - and you are using His name in vain?! That is sin!
Drinking - nothing unbiblical about alcohol - but getting drunk is clearly against NT teaching! You didn't say you get drunk, so I won't preach it anymore!
If you come to my children and want to share the gospel with them and in the process you tell them you cuss and have sex with your girlfriend, I will chase you off my property!
Are you a believer? You said you are and that your soul longs for God - you said you have a contrite heart. I take what you say at face value. If so, you should not be offended by what I say.
You are right that we are fully saved by faith and not because of what we do - with that I agree.
But I am not OK with a Christian being OK with being a "habitual sinner" - I won't stand for it! And neither does God!
It is sin to have sex outside of marriage! It does damage to the other person, and to yourself! Sexual sins are some of the biggest tricks of the Devil! And it is not OK for you go bragging about your sin!
Cussing - if you mean taking the name of the Lord in vain, How dare you? That is the one who saved me from sin, loves me, and gave His life for me - and you are using His name in vain?! That is sin!
Drinking - nothing unbiblical about alcohol - but getting drunk is clearly against NT teaching! You didn't say you get drunk, so I won't preach it anymore!
If you come to my children and want to share the gospel with them and in the process you tell them you cuss and have sex with your girlfriend, I will chase you off my property!
Are you a believer? You said you are and that your soul longs for God - you said you have a contrite heart. I take what you say at face value. If so, you should not be offended by what I say.
You are right that we are fully saved by faith and not because of what we do - with that I agree.
But I am not OK with a Christian being OK with being a "habitual sinner" - I won't stand for it! And neither does God!
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