"Not by works" - false!

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DBurrage

Banned
#1
Apr 21, 2020
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#1
2 Peter 2:1
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves".


I would like to contend that the notion that salvation is given to us ONLY in return for believing in Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior is INCOMPLETE.


We ARE asked to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation:
Acts 16:30-31
" "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household" ".


HOWEVER, Jesus repeatedly told people to stop sinning, and we are warned that if we deliberately/knowingly continue in sin following the acceptance of Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will NOT cover these sins:
Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

This of course makes sense.
If we SAY we follow Jesus but continue rebelling against God, then are we REALLY following Jesus?
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter".


So then, we must accept Jesus into our lives and believe in him.
AND we must also stop rebelling against God, even after we have accepted Jesus into our lives.


What I have said may be obvious to many, but all the time I hear excuses from Christians to justify their sinning:
"Nobody is perfect" - nobody has said that you are
"God will forgive me" - actually, according to Matt 7:21, if you continue to sin after accepting Jesus, Jesus' sacrifice won't cover your sin (verse above)
"We're human, and humans are fallible" - typical excuse!
"It is impossible not to sin, as we are not perfect" - this article sums it up very well: https://www.gotquestions.org/go-and-sin-no-more.html
Have you heard these kind of excuses too?


Christians have no excuses for deliberately/knowingly sinning:
1 John 1:6
"If, then, we say that we have fellowship with him, yet at the same time live in the darkness, we are lying both in our words and in our actions".
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#3
#3
Romans 4:4-6

4 Now to him that worketh, his reward is reckoned not according to grace, but according to debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth in Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness,

6 even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying,
 
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DBurrage

Banned
#4
Apr 21, 2020
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#4
EleventhHour said:
Romans 4:4-6

4 Now to him that worketh, his reward is reckoned not according to grace, but according to debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth in Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness,

6 even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying,
Click to expand...
Romans 4:4 teaches us that we do not receive grace through compliance with the law.
This is true.

But are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#5
#5
DBurrage said:
Romans 4:4 teaches us that we do not receive grace through compliance with the law.
This is true.

But are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
Click to expand...
Salvation is not by works

We do not put God in our debt

Salvation is a free gift

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:5
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#6
#6
the example of Jesus is good works, no way around that one.
 
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DBurrage

Banned
#7
Apr 21, 2020
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#7
EleventhHour said:
Salvation is not by works

We do not put God in our debt

Salvation is a free gift

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:5
Click to expand...
See post #4 in this thread: I have already addressed this.

You are correct in implying that we are not saved through compliance with the law, but are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#8
#8
DBurrage said:
See post #4 in this thread: I have already addressed this.

You are correct in implying that we are not saved through compliance with the law, but are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
Click to expand...
Do you keep the Sabbath?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#9
#9
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#10
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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#10
I think that a person is saved by believing.

then once they are saved, they desire to do good works.

a person who doesn't desire to do good works, probably isn't saved.

so if a person is trying to work it out mathematically, it would be that yes, a person is saved just by believing.

but in practice, believing isn't separated from good works. which is probably what James is trying to say in chapter 2.
 
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DBurrage

Banned
#11
Apr 21, 2020
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#11
EleventhHour said:
Do you keep the Sabbath?
Click to expand...
You've responded to my question with a question, so let's do this fairly...

I asked first, so after you answer my question I will answer yours:

Are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#12
#12
DBurrage said:
You've responded to my question with a question, so let's do this fairly...

I asked first, so after you answer my question I will answer yours:

Are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
Click to expand...
Keeping the commandments does not save.
That is the point of this thread right that we are saved by works.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#13
#13
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DBurrage

Banned
#14
Apr 21, 2020
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#14
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DBurrage

Banned
#15
Apr 21, 2020
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#15
EleventhHour said:
Keeping the commandments does not save.
That is the point of this thread right that we are saved by works.
Click to expand...
No, the point of this thread is NOT that we are saved by works.
The point is that we must believe in Jesus AND keep God's commandments.

You haven't actually read the OP, have you?

Now are you going to answer my question that I've now asked you 4 times...

Are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#16
#16
EleventhHour said:
Keeping the commandments does not save.
That is the point of this thread right that we are saved by works.
Click to expand...
is being a Christian about only doing what pertains to salvation, all other parts of the bible should be ignored?
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#17
#17
DBurrage said:
Please stop making the same point over and over.

See posts #4 and #7.
We are not justified by the law - correct.

But are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
Click to expand...
if you already have salvation there is no need to keep the commandments. you can go out and do whatever you want, rape, murder, drugs, do what you will! its all ok because works has nothing to do with salvation. it worked well for aleister crowley
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#18
#18
jaybird88 said:
if you already have salvation there is no need to keep the commandments. you can go out and do whatever you want, rape, murder, drugs, do what you will! its all ok because works has nothing to do with salvation. it worked well for alister crawley.
Click to expand...
When people go down this road I know there is nothing to discuss.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#19
#19
DBurrage said:
No, the point of this thread is NOT that we are saved by works.
The point is that we must believe in Jesus AND keep God's commandments.

You haven't actually read the OP, have you?

Now are you going to answer my question that I've now asked you 4 times...

Are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
Click to expand...
Keep God's commandments for salvation, that would be incorrect.
 
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