Not By Works

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walknlight

walknlight

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Hi!
John146 said:
Notice the Lord mentions that He would rise again. Satan didn’t know anything about the resurrection.
Click to expand...
John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Men and women knew of the Ressurection, howbeit that the "prince of this world" does
not?

As a matter of fact, He laid the whole plan out to His disciples...and Satan...

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

THERE WAS NOTHING SATAN CAN OR CoULD DO to foil the plan

THAT was set BEFORE the foundation of the world.......

God Bless...
 
J

John146

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Micaiah-imla said:
Now it seems obvious that you are not being honest here.

Jesus basically explained the entire Crucifixion and Resurrection to his disciples and Satan responded via Peter "far be it from thee, Lord".
Click to expand...
Please read my response again. You obviously missed something. Satan did not understand the resurrection. He wanted Jesus dead. He is a murderer from the beginning.
 
J

John146

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walknlight said:
Hi!


John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Men and women knew of the Ressurection, howbeit that the "prince of this world" does
not?

As a matter of fact, He laid the whole plan out to His disciples...and Satan...

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

THERE WAS NOTHING SATAN CAN OR CoULD DO to foil the plan

THAT was set BEFORE the foundation of the world.......

God Bless...
Click to expand...
Jesus prophesied of His resurrection but no one understood it. It was hidden until after.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Our gospel, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, was hid from them. They had no understanding of it.

Yes, God’s plan all along was the cross, but He kept it in mystery form until after the resurrection. Then eyes started to be opened.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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John146 said:
Jesus prophesied of His resurrection but no one understood it. It was hidden until after.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Our gospel, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, was hid from them. They had no understanding of it.

Yes, God’s plan all along was the cross, but He kept it in mystery form until after the resurrection. Then eyes started to be opened.
Click to expand...
yes
​
He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the scriptures ​
(1 Corinthians 15:4) ​
​
"according to the scriptures" -- it is not that this was not the Lord's intention, and it is not that it had not been written about Him in the book; it is that it was hidden, and could not be seen until He unveiled it. this same thing revealed to Paul was also revealed on the road to Emmaus, yet not until the Spirit was given and opened their hearts and minds to see, did they begin to comprehend.

this is what i mean @Guojing when i say reality is not defined by either the ignorance or the understanding of the apostles, or of any man. it was never Yah's intent to establish a physical kingdom in Israel when He came incarnate. it wasn't a 'lost opportunity' on the part of the people of Israel in 30 AD. as He said through Isaiah and as Christ Himself pointed out, He blinded them and shut up their ears in judgement, just as the heart of Pharaoh was hardened in judgement -- in order that He might call a people to Himself out of every nation, to be made a kingdom "not of this world" just as He said.

your mid-Acts business is not a change of plans. it is an unveiling of the very same design He spoke from the beginning, at the judgement in the garden.

Guojing said:
You mean Peter and the others were being ignorant there? Why do you say that?
Click to expand...
so yes. they did not know what they were inquiring about -- and He replied to them, "it is not for you to know the times or seasons"
He literally told them they were ignorant and would remain so when they asked this.
 
J

John146

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posthuman said:
yes
​
He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the scriptures ​
(1 Corinthians 15:4) ​
​
"according to the scriptures" -- it is not that this was not the Lord's intention, and it is not that it had not been written about Him in the book; it is that it was hidden, and could not be seen until He unveiled it. this same thing revealed to Paul was also revealed on the road to Emmaus, yet not until the Spirit was given and opened their hearts and minds to see, did they begin to comprehend.

this is what i mean @Guojing when i say reality is not defined by either the ignorance or the understanding of the apostles, or of any man. it was never Yah's intent to establish a physical kingdom in Israel when He came incarnate. it wasn't a 'lost opportunity' on the part of the people of Israel in 30 AD. as He said through Isaiah and as Christ Himself pointed out, He blinded them and shut up their ears in judgement, just as the heart of Pharaoh was hardened in judgement -- in order that He might call a people to Himself out of every nation, to be made a kingdom "not of this world" just as He said.

your mid-Acts business is not a change of plans. it is an unveiling of the very same design He spoke from the beginning, at the judgement in the garden.
Click to expand...
I believe it was part of the Lord’s intent and still is to establish an earthly kingdom and restore Israel. That part was contingent on the Jews receiving their Messiah. They did not, so the physical has been postponed. The Lord had to die for their sins before the physical could be given.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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John146 said:
I believe it was part of the Lord’s intent and still is to establish an earthly kingdom and restore Israel. That part was contingent on the Jews receiving their Messiah. They did not, so the physical has been postponed. The Lord had to die for their sins before the physical could be given.
Click to expand...
how can you simultaneously believe the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension was His determined will from the beginning and also that it was a "plan B" necessitated by the unbelief of the Jews?

But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.​
(Luke 17:25)​
 
J

John146

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posthuman said:
how can you simultaneously believe the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension was His determined will from the beginning and also that it was a "plan B" necessitated by the unbelief of the Jews?
Click to expand...
It was always plan A. Part of the promise the Lord gave Israel was a promised messiah to rule on an earthly throne of David over the house of Israel. It’s not about plan A or plan B. Before the physical could be given, the spiritual had to be dealt with.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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posthuman said:
how can you simultaneously believe the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension was His determined will from the beginning and also that it was a "plan B" necessitated by the unbelief of the Jews?

But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.​
(Luke 17:25)​
Click to expand...
@John146 @Guojing

He said to them,
“O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”
And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
(Luke 24:25-27)
​
we now having heard the gospel and received the illumination of the Holy Ghost are we also to be so foolish and slow of heart not to understand what Moses and the Prophets testify of Him?? the rejection of Christ by His people and the bringing in of the Gentiles permeates all the scripture, but like @John146 said, it was hidden, and that in full accord with His own purpose.
 
J

John146

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posthuman said:
@John146 @Guojing

He said to them, ​
“O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” ​
And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. ​
(Luke 24:25-27)​
​
we now having heard the gospel and received the illumination of the Holy Ghost are we also to be so foolish and slow of heart not to understand what Moses and the Prophets testify of Him?? the rejection of Christ by His people and the bringing in of the Gentiles permeates all the scripture, but like @John146 said, it was hidden, and that in full accord with His own purpose.
Click to expand...
Prophesied, yes but hidden. Can prophecy not be hidden until after it’s been fulfilled? Jesus prophesied of His d,b,r but hid the understanding from His disciples.
 
J

John146

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posthuman said:
@John146 @Guojing

He said to them, ​
“O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” ​
And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. ​
(Luke 24:25-27)​
​
we now having heard the gospel and received the illumination of the Holy Ghost are we also to be so foolish and slow of heart not to understand what Moses and the Prophets testify of Him?? the rejection of Christ by His people and the bringing in of the Gentiles permeates all the scripture, but like @John146 said, it was hidden, and that in full accord with His own purpose.
Click to expand...
Do you not believe in an earthly kingdom?
 
posthuman

posthuman

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John146 said:
It was always plan A. Part of the promise the Lord gave Israel was a promised messiah to rule on an earthly throne of David over the house of Israel. It’s not about plan A or plan B. Before the physical could be given, the spiritual had to be dealt with.
Click to expand...
ok, and i'm not going to give any argument one way or the other for the millineum or beyond it -- but that it was never His intent when Jesus was incarnate to assume a physical throne.
 
G

Guojing

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posthuman said:
so yes. they did not know what they were inquiring about -- and He replied to them, "it is not for you to know the times or seasons"
He literally told them they were ignorant and would remain so when they asked this.
Click to expand...
No, Jesus literally told them it might come soon, or it might come later, its not for them to know exactly when, nothing about them being ignorant for asking that question.

When Peter preached to Israel in Acts 2 and 3, urging them to repent so that the kingdom can finally come (Acts 3:19-20), he was filled with the Holy Spirit when he said those words.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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John146 said:
Prophesied, yes but hidden. Can prophecy not be hidden until after it’s been fulfilled? Jesus prophesied of His d,b,r but hid the understanding from His disciples.
Click to expand...

it indicates that it was never His intent to establish a physical kingdom when He came. that it was always His intention to do exactly as He did. the failure of anyone or any nation collectively to understand these things has no bearing on whether they are His will
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Guojing said:
nothing about them being ignorant
Click to expand...
He says, "it is not for you to know"

ignorance is by definition lack of knowledge.
not knowing = lacking knowledge.

why is this hard for you, lol bbq?

by saying this knowledge is not for you to have, He says this is an ignorance you are to have in place of knowledge.
 
J

John146

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posthuman said:
ok, and i'm not going to give any argument one way or the other for the millineum or beyond it -- but that it was never His intent when Jesus was incarnate to assume a physical throne.
Click to expand...
Luke 1 explains what the Jews were looking for. Not only was it prophesied, but the Holy Spirit led Zacharias to speak.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

The salvation they were looking for was a physical deliverance from their enemies, to have Israel restored so they could serve God without fear. Jesus was/is that deliverer.
 
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