Not By Works

[John146]

it indicates that it was never His intent to establish a physical kingdom when He came. that it was always His intention to do exactly as He did. the failure of anyone or any nation collectively to understand these things has no bearing on whether they are His will

One has to understand the difference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. Most commentaries get it wrong. They equate the two. Simply put, heaven and God are not the same. One’s a created physical place. The other is a spirit.

 

[posthuman]

Luke 1 explains what the Jews were looking for. Not only was it prophesied, but the Holy Spirit led Zacharias to speak.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

The salvation they were looking for was a physical deliverance from their enemies, to have Israel restored so they could serve God without fear. Jesus was/is that deliverer.

so what?
does Christ not save?

 

[posthuman]

One has to understand the difference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. Most commentaries get it wrong. They equate the two. Simply put, heaven and God are not the same. One’s a created physical place. The other is a spirit.

one King, one kingdom.

​

Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, ​

you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. ​

(Matthew 18:3)​

​

Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.​

(Luke 18:17)​

 

[John146]

so what?
does Christ not save?

Absolutely He saves sinners. Jesus could not usher in a His kingdom while Israel was yet in their sins. This was hidden until after the resurrection. And even then they rejected Jesus because most were still looking for their King. Their King had been crucified. They did not believe in the resurrection. This truth was taken to build the Church upon Gentiles.

 

[John146]

one King, one kingdom.

​

Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, ​

you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. ​

(Matthew 18:3)​

​

Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.​

(Luke 18:17)​

Can you show in Scripture where the word heaven is equated with the word God?

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

God created heaven. The two are not the same, thus the kingdom of God is not the kingdom of heaven.

 

[posthuman]

Absolutely He saves sinners. Jesus could not usher in a His kingdom while Israel was yet in their sins. This was hidden until after the resurrection. And even then they rejected Jesus because most were still looking for their King. Their King had been crucified. They did not believe in the resurrection. This truth was taken to build the Church upon Gentiles.

I assure you: tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you!
(Matthew 18:3)
​

are entering the kingdom of God, He says. 2,000 years ago. kingdom of God. existing and populating.

 

[EleventhHour]

One has to understand the difference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. Most commentaries get it wrong. They equate the two. Simply put, heaven and God are not the same. One’s a created physical place. The other is a spirit.

So then the Kingdom of Heaven is a physical place?

 

[John146]

I assure you: tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you! ​

(Matthew 18:3) ​

​

are entering the kingdom of God, He says. 2,000 years ago. kingdom of God. existing and populating.

The KOG is a spiritual kingdom that operates within the believer.

 

[John146]

So then the Kingdom of Heaven is a physical place?

Is it not? God created it...we live in the first heaven...

 

[Guojing]

He says, "it is not for you to know"

ignorance is by definition lack of knowledge.
not knowing = lacking knowledge.

why is this hard for you, lol bbq?

by saying this knowledge is not for you to have, He says this is an ignorance you are to have in place of knowledge.

The 12 were asking him a specific question about timing.

Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Jesus replied it is not for you to know

You are reading your doctrine about "no physical kingdom on earth" into that reply.

Jesus merely replied with, "it is not for you to know when will that take place."

The 12 had good reason to ask him that. Jesus told them before Matthew 19:28

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[John146]

The 12 were asking him a specific question about timing.

Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Jesus replied it is not for you to know

You are reading your doctrine about "no physical kingdom on earth" into that reply.

Jesus merely replied with, "it is not for you to know when will that take place."

I wonder why He didn’t rebuke them for such a thought....

 

[Guojing]

I wonder why He didn’t rebuke them for such a thought....

I think if Jesus really wanted to rebuke them, it would be

"Don't be silly and ask stupid questions, didn't I already told you before my cruxifiction that

1. my kingdom is not of this world? John 18:36
2. my kingdom is already among you? Luke 17:21
   https://biblehub.com/john/18-36.htm
   
   
   

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Simply put, heaven and God are not the same. One’s a created physical place. The other is a spirit.

No answer for my last question, huh?

But this foolish reasoning behind 'heaven' and 'God' comes from Dispensationalism. No one reading the scriptures would ever come up with that nonsense because it is explicitly implied that the words are used to describe the same place in parallel passages.

And Jesus came and spake...saying, All power is given me in heaven and in earth (Matthew 28:18).

So using your logic Jesus was given power in heaven (a created place) and in earth (a created place).

Jesus went up to heaven when he disappeared out of the apostles sight in Acts 1:9-11 (I guess he never left, huh?).

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, there is only one path to salvation for everyone NOW, that is 1 Cor 15:1-4.

As I was telling him, the Jews in the OT were not looking to salvation in the way we are looking towards now. They were looking forward to their promised kingdom.

When their King usher them into that kingdom, all their sins would also be remitted as well (Acts 3:19)

No one believe the drivel peddled by this false religionist.....there has only been ONE methid of salvation from day 8.......the first promise of the redeemer, faith into said redeemer and the above poster is corrupting the word of God, adds to the word of God, twists the word of God, embellishes the word of God and is peddling that which is false. There was NOT one gospel of salvation for the O.T. saints and then a different gospel for N.T. saints.....It has always been faith by looking forward to the Messiah and or FAITH BY LOOKING back to the messiah.

 

[dcontroversal]

lol do you not know who Jesus is?

One would have to question his knowledge of who Jesus is based upon his conflated and or embellished dogma that does not jive with the Bible!

 

[John146]

No answer for my last question, huh?

But this foolish reasoning behind 'heaven' and 'God' comes from Dispensationalism. No one reading the scriptures would ever come up with that nonsense because it is explicitly implied that the words are used to describe the same place in parallel passages.

And Jesus came and spake...saying, All power is given me in heaven and in earth (Matthew 28:18).

So using your logic Jesus was given power in heaven (a created place) and in earth (a created place).

Jesus went up to heaven when he disappeared out of the apostles sight in Acts 1:9-11.

They would only have to read the first verse in the Bible to come up with that “nonsense”. Lol

Jesus descended to the third heaven. The first heaven is man’s temporary dwelling place here on earth.

 

[dcontroversal]

Now it seems obvious that you are not being honest here.

Jesus basically explained the entire Crucifixion and Resurrection to his disciples and Satan responded via Peter "far be it from thee, Lord".

He is dense if he thinks Satan did not know about the resurrection....SATAN quotes scripture and his messengers quote scripture every day of the week in all the false religions that identify with Christianity. Allbeit they skew they truth just like the poster you have addressed in the above post.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Jesus descended to the third heaven.

Chapter and verse?

And are you basing this on a vision and revelation that Paul spoke about in 2 Corinthians 12:2?

such an one caught to the third heaven

This is the only time (correct me if I am wrong) that this 'third' heaven is mentioned. I would not use this as a basis of creating distinctions throughout scripture.

 

[dcontroversal]

yes

​

He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the scriptures ​

(1 Corinthians 15:4) ​

​

"according to the scriptures" -- it is not that this was not the Lord's intention, and it is not that it had not been written about Him in the book; it is that it was hidden, and could not be seen until He unveiled it. this same thing revealed to Paul was also revealed on the road to Emmaus, yet not until the Spirit was given and opened their hearts and minds to see, did they begin to comprehend.

this is what i mean @Guojing when i say reality is not defined by either the ignorance or the understanding of the apostles, or of any man. it was never Yah's intent to establish a physical kingdom in Israel when He came incarnate. it wasn't a 'lost opportunity' on the part of the people of Israel in 30 AD. as He said through Isaiah and as Christ Himself pointed out, He blinded them and shut up their ears in judgement, just as the heart of Pharaoh was hardened in judgement -- in order that He might call a people to Himself out of every nation, to be made a kingdom "not of this world" just as He said.

your mid-Acts business is not a change of plans. it is an unveiling of the very same design He spoke from the beginning, at the judgement in the garden.



so yes. they did not know what they were inquiring about -- and He replied to them, "it is not for you to know the times or seasons"
He literally told them they were ignorant and would remain so when they asked this.

Amen....and as I have said before which the jokers oppose and stand against....

In the volume of the book it is writte of me

and

Search the scriptures, for they are they which testify of ME <--WRITTEN before N.T. written and pointing at the O.T.

These jokers absolutely oppose truth by their stance and I have yet to decide if it is just plain ignornce or being obstinate becsuse of pride and a refusal to admit error and accept the truth and be corrected!

 

[dcontroversal]

I believe it was part of the Lord’s intent and still is to establish an earthly kingdom and restore Israel. That part was contingent on the Jews receiving their Messiah. They did not, so the physical has been postponed. The Lord had to die for their sins before the physical could be given.

This absolutely denies all the verses that speak to the rejection of Christ, timing of WHEN they will receive him, when the Kindgom will be established.....it DENIES truth and lifts your false opinion and in essence makes the word of God into a lie....Zechariah alone condemns your view....not to mention all of the other prophecies....