Not By Works

[GandalfTheWhite]

Wrong......we cannot leave Christ to the point he will forsake us....numerous truths prove this point....

The Good shepherd will leave the 99 to find the one that has left

The Prodigal

If we become faithless HE ABIDES FAITHFUL because he cannot deny himself

God does not forsake, leave, cast off his children...even if they are rebellious....he may whip them, put them in the wilderness, cause them to wander and may even take thier life prematurely....

You are wrong in your view man!

God cannot forsake us… ever. He is omnipresent, but we can turn our backs on Him. The word is clear about it. Like you say the prodigal son… he was not in his father’s house while he was squandering his riches. The father allowed him back, but while he was in the world, he was in the world. By grace he made it back to his father’s house.

The sheep is God’s followers, he did not go out looking for a goat while His sheep was missing. The ones in covenant with Him are the sheep. I don’t see him going out looking for goats (non-believers, the ones turned away from Him).

There are many verses in the Old Testament where God said He will not forsake Israel, but in the end he did gave the 10 tribes a bill of divorce. Was God lying to Israel, or did he change His mind? No, He did not forsake them but gave them over to their desires. Just like you and me, if we are choosing to be part of the world, He will not force himself on us.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

We are not under the Old Covenant which was conditional blessing.....geesh.....this really reeks of dishonesty man....serious and = conflating two covenants which is false and not a biblical stance!

Was it the Old Covenant that brought Israel to salvation, because then they all did not make it?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

A couple of points:
-Christians love God willingly, therefore do not live their lives as they please (1).
-The Bible teaches that none of us are saved until God (2) does the choosing.

1) Your teaching is not in line with the others on this thread because according to them after you are saved you can continue on your merry way without changing and still be saved. Your works don't have to change

2) What about babies then? Are they not saved until God choose to save them, or are they saved until God choose not to save them anymore?

 

[mailmandan]

The woman caught in adultery was told not to commit the sin of adultery again...it was specific to her sin.

And you state you do not interpret scripture ... you do, but it is completely wrong.

Apparently, he is using the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to tell her, "go and just sin a little bit." I don't believe that Jesus truly expected the woman to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time after that and those who believe they live a sinless, perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Apparently, he is using the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to tell her, "go and just sin a little bit." I don't believe that Jesus truly expected the woman to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time after that and those who believe they live a sinless, perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

This is true; however God does expect us to turn from sin when we get to the foot of the cross. Does this mean we will be perfect? Of course not.

God bless my friend

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Apparently, he is using the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to tell her, "go and just sin a little bit." I don't believe that Jesus truly expected the woman to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time after that and those who believe they live a sinless, perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

This is true; however God does expect us to turn from sin when we get to the foot of the cross. Does this mean we will be perfect? Of course not.

God bless my friend

 

[EleventhHour]

God cannot forsake us… ever. He is omnipresent, but we can turn our backs on Him. The word is clear about it. Like you say the prodigal son… he was not in his father’s house while he was squandering his riches. The father allowed him back, but while he was in the world, he was in the world. By grace he made it back to his father’s house.

The sheep is God’s followers, he did not go out looking for a goat while His sheep was missing. The ones in covenant with Him are the sheep. I don’t see him going out looking for goats (non-believers, the ones turned away from Him).

There are many verses in the Old Testament where God said He will not forsake Israel, but in the end he did gave the 10 tribes a bill of divorce. Was God lying to Israel, or did he change His mind? No, He did not forsake them but gave them over to their desires. Just like you and me, if we are choosing to be part of the world, He will not force himself on us.

I read nowhere in the parable that the Father disowned the son.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I read nowhere in the parable that the Father disowned the son.

I agree with this... I also do not read that the 5 virgins without oil was taken with the groom they were left behind

 

[EleventhHour]

He that commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8).

We'll just leave it here.

Let that be your motivation to show who you are of, God or the devil.

I just want to know one thing..... does your wife think you are sinless?

Then of course she cannot read your mind and heart can she?

 

[EleventhHour]

I agree with this... I also do not read that the 5 virgins without oil was taken with the groom they were left behind

The Lord says to the foolish virgins upon their return and wanting to gain entry ‘I know you not’.

The verb (to know) is in the perfect tense, (look it up) which means the action (not knowing) was completed in the past and still is.

The foolish virgins were never known, never saved in the first place to somehow lose their salvation later.

 

[dcontroversal]

You deny context at every turn... when I tell a kid.... "do not do that again" ....they know what I am talking about, it is obvious because of the infraction committed at that moment.

By the way if you think scripture does not require critical analysis you are sadly mistaken.
Even technical writing requires interpretation.

Have y

Any assembly that forsakes the Bible needs to be forsaken.

Blah, blah, blah.....you can excuse your sin all day long pal....does not change the fact you are in sin and by your own words and doctrine lost.

a. Forsaking assembling
b. Trampling Jesus underfoot
c. Count Christ's blood common/base

Sin, sin, sin.......but we all already knew you are a sinner, hypocrite and peddle a false dogma

 

[dcontroversal]

I would encourage a Mormon to forsake his assembly.

I guess you would not.

I would encourage a Mormon to actually trust the Jesus of the bible by faith and actually be born again from above eternally....same thing I would encourage you to do....get right and come out of the sin you are immersed in pal!

 

[dcontroversal]

Very well.

Continue in your ignorance (1 Corinthians 14:38).

You should read this, acknowledge your sin, get right and actually trust Jesus by faith!

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The Lord says to the foolish virgins upon their return and wanting to gain entry ‘I know you not’.

The verb (to know) is in the perfect tense, (look it up) which means the action (not knowing) was completed in the past and still is.

The foolish virgins were never known, never saved in the first place to somehow lose their salvation later.

I agree with this. They were not saved to begin with, but they were waiting for the groom, trying to enter covenant. God will always look at our hearts and like cv 5 pointed out, if we are saved our hearts will change. So true repentance will go along with works. Works will not bring us to salvation but because we met Christ at the cross we will now change. To me that has always been the argument, you can’t be saved and keep on living the same life you led before because then you were one of the foolish virgins. You have to change because you met the Saviour.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think if you spend more time on Bible reading, instead of Bible translating, you will be all the better for it.

All the prophets have been accused of being heretics (Jesus was accused of being crazy as well). I am in good company.

For:

Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets (Luke 6:26).

God bless!

They actually had the truth....you not so much!

 

[dcontroversal]

But what happened when Moses gave the law to Israel at mount Sinai?

It was optional for them to keep it?

Obviously you did not read what I wrote!

 

[dcontroversal]

God cannot forsake us… ever. He is omnipresent, but we can turn our backs on Him. The word is clear about it. Like you say the prodigal son… he was not in his father’s house while he was squandering his riches. The father allowed him back, but while he was in the world, he was in the world. By grace he made it back to his father’s house.

The sheep is God’s followers, he did not go out looking for a goat while His sheep was missing. The ones in covenant with Him are the sheep. I don’t see him going out looking for goats (non-believers, the ones turned away from Him).

There are many verses in the Old Testament where God said He will not forsake Israel, but in the end he did gave the 10 tribes a bill of divorce. Was God lying to Israel, or did he change His mind? No, He did not forsake them but gave them over to their desires. Just like you and me, if we are choosing to be part of the world, He will not force himself on us.

wrong.....the prodigal was never NOT A SON during the whole process and was ONLY perceived as dead though VERY MUCH ALIVE.....

Was Peter perceived as a son while cussing and denying Christ? YET he was still a saved child OF GOD

You guys ALWAYS embellish the scripture WAY BEYOND the truth to peddle points not valid....

Conflating the Old covenant which had CONDITIONAL FLESHLY BLESSINGS with the N.T. covenant of GRACE and SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS IN HEAVENLY places will be the cause for most religionists to miss the boat and not make the kingdom of heaven!

 

[dcontroversal]

1) Your teaching is not in line with the others on this thread because according to them after you are saved you can continue on your merry way without changing and still be saved. Your works don't have to change

2) What about babies then? Are they not saved until God choose to save them, or are they saved until God choose not to save them anymore?

#1 is the most dishonest thing I have seen you say....it is false and you should hang your head in shame for not only misrepresenting the truth, but also for joining hand in hand with the liars and deceivers that peddle that crap in defense of their false, idiotic working, for self saving dogma!

 

[EleventhHour]

I agree with this. They were not saved to begin with, but they were waiting for the groom, trying to enter covenant. God will always look at our hearts and like cv 5 pointed out, if we are saved our hearts will change. So true repentance will go along with works. Works will not bring us to salvation but because we met Christ at the cross we will now change. To me that has always been the argument, you can’t be saved and keep on living the same life you led before because then you were one of the foolish virgins. You have to change because you met the Saviour.

What is your point really.... all of you that believe salvation can be lost always throw up this works being necessary or else not really saved.

And then you accuse those that hold steadfast to salvation being secure and completely a gift apart from and any and all works as somehow teaching we can live how we want.

It gets very tiresome and for one makes me think people really do NOT understand .......

The Gospel/Grace/The Cross/Atonement/Adoption/Redemption/Justification/Sanctification/Abiding/Chastisement/ Union with God etc., etc., even though they think they do.

 

[cv5]

I agree with this. They were not saved to begin with, but they were waiting for the groom, trying to enter covenant. God will always look at our hearts and like cv 5 pointed out, if we are saved our hearts will change. So true repentance will go along with works. Works will not bring us to salvation but because we met Christ at the cross we will now change. To me that has always been the argument, you can’t be saved and keep on living the same life you led before because then you were one of the foolish virgins. You have to change because you met the Saviour.

I have to let you know that I have met a couple of individuals that were in an absolutely wretched state, beaten down, engaged in some kinds of sinning behavior. And after speaking with them at length I came away with the impression that these people were actually and truly saved. I was really convinced that they knew the Lord and the Lord knew them.