The Reason You are Told that God No Longer Speaks.
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Most people are honest enough to admit that they are (or at least were) "blind". In other words, we admit that we didn't know God, or had difficulty understanding what is really being said in the bible. And although perhaps embarrassed, we were humble enough to receive instruction from someone who is willing to guide us.
Then, at some point, we met someone who said "Hey, you need to know about God (or Jesus). Let me teach you."
And we said "Ok. That sounds good." And we began to let them lead us, or perhaps to take us to someone even more knowledgeable. And they began to teach us how to "see" certain scriptures.
However, there is a danger hidden within this scenario, and Jesus warns us about it. He said "If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".
The question becomes "Wow, that's a scary thought. How could I find out if the person that leads me is blind?"
Well, you could ask the person leading you how to recognize a "blind leader". And I almost guarantee that they will give you an answer that does not point at him or herself as a blind leader.
What most will do is to point you to the scriptures to find the answers....encouraging you to revisit the scriptures they've told you are the most important ones... and that they've been teaching you how to interpret. Please don't miss the importance of the previous sentence. They know what you will find if you look at the scriptures the way they have taught you.
Now you're left with a problem.... How can you know the TRUTH if you may have been taught to "see" by the blind?
If you look at the scriptures by the way you were taught, you will only find the answers you’ve been taught to find...“Seeing” the scriptures through the eyes of your leaders, whether they are blind or not.
If you try to look at the scriptures without what you’ve been taught, you’re only left with yourself...and you’ve already admitted that you were blind before learning from your leaders.
So what should you do about this problem?
Simple… When we can’t “see” and don’t know who to trust, we need to directly ask the only person we can truly trust (God) until he answers.
God cannot lie. And he will only speak truth...even about your leaders. If they are blind leaders, God would tell that truth to you if you ever gain the ability to hear from God directly...and THAT is the reason you are told that God no longer speaks.
Does God speak? Yes. He says “My sheep hear my voice”. And he cannot lie. <--that means he still speaks and at least some still hear..
So... Have you heard his voice? If not, you should be asking sincerely why not, and how you can. But I recommend that you ask the one you can trust, not the ones you should have asked about before trusting them with your eternity. (You need to go to God, not man...not even me, if you REALLY want to know the truth.)
BTW, Just because you can’t see clearly doesn’t mean you can’t hear.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
“He that hath an ear, let him hear.”
Then, at some point, we met someone who said "Hey, you need to know about God (or Jesus). Let me teach you."
And we said "Ok. That sounds good." And we began to let them lead us, or perhaps to take us to someone even more knowledgeable. And they began to teach us how to "see" certain scriptures.
However, there is a danger hidden within this scenario, and Jesus warns us about it. He said "If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".
The question becomes "Wow, that's a scary thought. How could I find out if the person that leads me is blind?"
Well, you could ask the person leading you how to recognize a "blind leader". And I almost guarantee that they will give you an answer that does not point at him or herself as a blind leader.
What most will do is to point you to the scriptures to find the answers....encouraging you to revisit the scriptures they've told you are the most important ones... and that they've been teaching you how to interpret. Please don't miss the importance of the previous sentence. They know what you will find if you look at the scriptures the way they have taught you.
Now you're left with a problem.... How can you know the TRUTH if you may have been taught to "see" by the blind?
If you look at the scriptures by the way you were taught, you will only find the answers you’ve been taught to find...“Seeing” the scriptures through the eyes of your leaders, whether they are blind or not.
If you try to look at the scriptures without what you’ve been taught, you’re only left with yourself...and you’ve already admitted that you were blind before learning from your leaders.
So what should you do about this problem?
Simple… When we can’t “see” and don’t know who to trust, we need to directly ask the only person we can truly trust (God) until he answers.
God cannot lie. And he will only speak truth...even about your leaders. If they are blind leaders, God would tell that truth to you if you ever gain the ability to hear from God directly...and THAT is the reason you are told that God no longer speaks.
Does God speak? Yes. He says “My sheep hear my voice”. And he cannot lie. <--that means he still speaks and at least some still hear..
So... Have you heard his voice? If not, you should be asking sincerely why not, and how you can. But I recommend that you ask the one you can trust, not the ones you should have asked about before trusting them with your eternity. (You need to go to God, not man...not even me, if you REALLY want to know the truth.)
BTW, Just because you can’t see clearly doesn’t mean you can’t hear.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
“He that hath an ear, let him hear.”
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Interesting fact is before the name of Jesus, demons were cast out in their own name. The demon had to identify itself and then you could cast it out. The trick however came in when it was a mute demon. There was no way to cast them out, that is why it was seen as a Messianic miracle to cast out a deaf and dumb spirit because as a mute there was no way to know what demon to cast out. Amazing picture in the life of Christ.
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Roger,
2 things:
1. A few posts ago we were discussing the difference between what is clearly stated vs. what is assumed. You were able to clearly see an assumption I'd used about those in Acts 19:1-6 (because what I was proposing was NOT clearly stated, and had to be assumed to be believed). I'm claiming that the above quote is likewise NOT a clearly stated truth, and likewise has to be assumed to be believed. If you believe it IS clearly stated, please post the scriptural reference of the statement so we can scrutinize it similarly.
2. This one needs broken into paragraphs, so please bear with me:
When I was in my younger years of school, I greatly resisted the idea of showing my work on math assignments because to me, the answers were so obvious that I'd just write them. In fact, I had a hard time even seeing that there was a process going on in my mind to reach the answers, because it was nearly instantaneous. Further, what would be the value of taking an instantaneous process, (that I thought unnecessary anyway and ought to be obvious to everyone), and tediously writing down each minute step along the way? Especially since my answers were both faster and more often correct compared to those who used that method).
It wasn't until i reached some advanced math courses that the need to show my work appeared. At some point the problems became too complex to do in my head. When I tried to find where I'd gotten off track, I discovered I couldn't because I couldn't hold and examine all the details at once. The only solution was to offload some of them onto paper. AKA show my work so I could find the hidden error.
(Bringing in a new piece now) I used to think your replies were only vaguely related to the verse or topic you were addressing. They just seemed like passive-aggressive shots from afar. (i.e. Post #79, that I see differently now). Only when you explained ( partially showed your work) was I able to see (and show the rest of your work as to) how your statement was actually derived. (Post #101). Then I could agree with what you were saying.
If you did more "showing of your work" perhaps I could see how your conclusions are correct. Or perhaps we could find the exact point one (or both) of us have made an assumption, and examine it.
I will give an example of that in my next posting, which you are invited to scrutinize.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
2 things:
1. A few posts ago we were discussing the difference between what is clearly stated vs. what is assumed. You were able to clearly see an assumption I'd used about those in Acts 19:1-6 (because what I was proposing was NOT clearly stated, and had to be assumed to be believed). I'm claiming that the above quote is likewise NOT a clearly stated truth, and likewise has to be assumed to be believed. If you believe it IS clearly stated, please post the scriptural reference of the statement so we can scrutinize it similarly.
2. This one needs broken into paragraphs, so please bear with me:
When I was in my younger years of school, I greatly resisted the idea of showing my work on math assignments because to me, the answers were so obvious that I'd just write them. In fact, I had a hard time even seeing that there was a process going on in my mind to reach the answers, because it was nearly instantaneous. Further, what would be the value of taking an instantaneous process, (that I thought unnecessary anyway and ought to be obvious to everyone), and tediously writing down each minute step along the way? Especially since my answers were both faster and more often correct compared to those who used that method).
It wasn't until i reached some advanced math courses that the need to show my work appeared. At some point the problems became too complex to do in my head. When I tried to find where I'd gotten off track, I discovered I couldn't because I couldn't hold and examine all the details at once. The only solution was to offload some of them onto paper. AKA show my work so I could find the hidden error.
(Bringing in a new piece now) I used to think your replies were only vaguely related to the verse or topic you were addressing. They just seemed like passive-aggressive shots from afar. (i.e. Post #79, that I see differently now). Only when you explained ( partially showed your work) was I able to see (and show the rest of your work as to) how your statement was actually derived. (Post #101). Then I could agree with what you were saying.
If you did more "showing of your work" perhaps I could see how your conclusions are correct. Or perhaps we could find the exact point one (or both) of us have made an assumption, and examine it.
I will give an example of that in my next posting, which you are invited to scrutinize.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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I do understand how people might think the Bible is what is perfect and was lacking, and how (if a correct hypothesis) a perfect 'Bible' would fulfill 1 Corinthians 14:8. But that's not the only hypothesis, and 1 Cor 13: 8 & 10 are not the only verses that need to be fulfilled. The promises of 1 Cor 12 also needs to be fulfilled. So we should test any reasonable hypotheses (a.k.a assumptions or doctrines) to see if they hold up to scrutiny.
We only need to A) meet the criteria of the hypothesis, B) observe the outcome, and C) compare that to the promised results. Let's test the hypothesis / assumption / doctrine of "the Bible = that which is perfect" :
It could more easily be argued that "A complete forsaking of this life and fully entering into the kindgom of God" more accurately fulfills the requirements for "that which is perfect" (because in fulfilling those requirements, more of the promised results are obtained). And we can use Paul himself as an example:
Does Paul fit the criteria of the hypothesis? Let's see:
And by meeting the criteria of the hypothesis, does he obtain the results promised in 1 Cor 13:12? Again, let's look:
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
We only need to A) meet the criteria of the hypothesis, B) observe the outcome, and C) compare that to the promised results. Let's test the hypothesis / assumption / doctrine of "the Bible = that which is perfect" :
- Do we now have "the Bible"? Yes. (Criteria met)
- Do the Christians now "see face to face" because they have 'The Bible'? Nope. (Promised result not obtained)
- Do the Christians now know as clearly as they are known? Nope. (Promised result not obtained)
- Conclusion: Although the criteria has been met, the promised results have not been obtained, therefore the hypothesis is faulty.
It could more easily be argued that "A complete forsaking of this life and fully entering into the kindgom of God" more accurately fulfills the requirements for "that which is perfect" (because in fulfilling those requirements, more of the promised results are obtained). And we can use Paul himself as an example:
Does Paul fit the criteria of the hypothesis? Let's see:
- Has Paul completely forsaken this life? Yes.
- Has he fully entered into the kingdom of God? Yes.
And by meeting the criteria of the hypothesis, does he obtain the results promised in 1 Cor 13:12? Again, let's look:
- Does he now see clearly, rather than through a glass, darkly? Yes.
- Does he now see face to face? Yes.
- Does he now know as he is known? Probably, but likely much more certainly than any on earth can claim.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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I see what you are saying here.
It is my understanding that the gifts are from God and not wielded by the will of people. In other words, the gifts are given in situations where it is Gods Will for them to be performed. Or Gods Will for something to be revealed.
So miraculously answered prayer and having gifts are one in the same. In my understanding.
So if someone says "Hey, I can heal you" or "I can raise that guy from the dead" they are immediately wrong. They can do no such thing. But God can. And if a person with faith in God prays and asks God, if it is Gods Will, God will perform it. Perhaps it will look like it is the person who is doing what God is actually doing but it is always God who is doing and it is not coming from some skill of the person.
So, while I can understand how you might say that gifts are not for today, I think that God still works and He works through people. Humble people of God. Not arrogant people claiming to have the Power of God.
It is my understanding that the gifts are from God and not wielded by the will of people. In other words, the gifts are given in situations where it is Gods Will for them to be performed. Or Gods Will for something to be revealed.
So miraculously answered prayer and having gifts are one in the same. In my understanding.
So if someone says "Hey, I can heal you" or "I can raise that guy from the dead" they are immediately wrong. They can do no such thing. But God can. And if a person with faith in God prays and asks God, if it is Gods Will, God will perform it. Perhaps it will look like it is the person who is doing what God is actually doing but it is always God who is doing and it is not coming from some skill of the person.
So, while I can understand how you might say that gifts are not for today, I think that God still works and He works through people. Humble people of God. Not arrogant people claiming to have the Power of God.
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I believe the prayer of faith heals the sick and brings miracles. But the Gifts were part of Being an Apostle. Just as Moses performed miracles. And only a few had the Gifts through the Apostle's hands. But these, like Phillip, could not pass them on because they weren't one of the twelve Apostles. Even speaking in tongues came through the Apostle's hands or through the two outpourings. This is why the charismatic movement is so tragically false today.
The bible is indeed perfect but those that may interpret it are less than perfect and perhaps that is where the problem lies. I would say that we can only do our best with the tools and resources that God provides for us. The results may be imperfect but more complete than the raw materials that was started with. The finished work may not be a masterpiece but it may still be suitable for framing. Perhaps it's an abstract.
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I just liked that particular point so I wanted to post it again.
**thinks to self** .oO(If you stir a pot does it boil faster?) lol
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
**thinks to self** .oO(If you stir a pot does it boil faster?) lol
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Ezekiel 1:3 NKJV
Love it
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Rubbish.
We have the completed bible so the things that were in the OT prophecies about Christ are now made clear. We see in our NT how God sees us. We see why the law and how our righteousness is insufficient to merit acceptance of God.
Examine yourself in view of what Christ has said in the bible. See your need of redemption by grace. Rest assured in the confidence that God will fulfill all His promises to you.
Foolishness is bound in the heart of those who hate wisdom.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We have the completed bible so the things that were in the OT prophecies about Christ are now made clear. We see in our NT how God sees us. We see why the law and how our righteousness is insufficient to merit acceptance of God.
Examine yourself in view of what Christ has said in the bible. See your need of redemption by grace. Rest assured in the confidence that God will fulfill all His promises to you.
Foolishness is bound in the heart of those who hate wisdom.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you continue to discount scripture you need not consider what I think. The bible does say that all that is going to be given has been given. God is speaking through His word and by His Holy Spirit. Problem is that men still refuse to listen because then they would be obligated to submit, humble themselves and obey.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Hmm, in that case I'm not the only one around here discounting scripture
“And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Joel 2:28-29 NKJV
It's so significant, it was even the basis of Peter's first sermon. But I'm sure you're well aware of these scriptures.
“And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Joel 2:28-29 NKJV
It's so significant, it was even the basis of Peter's first sermon. But I'm sure you're well aware of these scriptures.
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If you will not hear what God has said why would He keep talking?
If you listen to what God has already said you will have your hands full enough that you will not fret about more.
Israel found out when they asked for the law and God gave them only ten that they could not keep them.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you listen to what God has already said you will have your hands full enough that you will not fret about more.
Israel found out when they asked for the law and God gave them only ten that they could not keep them.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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