CESSATIONISM AND HEALING

[Absolutely]

Remember the blood applied to the door post was an umbrella covering for salvation from death.

Then,in the wilderness.
The serpent, a type of christ,was used to heal.

Healing is part of salvation.
Once that Avenue is opened...a glorious adventure opens to the believer.

But much stalking from the enemy. Much peril.

 

[Sudakar]

You claim you believe now what do you believe? Do you believe what you like or do you believe all of scripture?

Ac 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake.

Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1Pe 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness’ sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

The path we trod is not all roses and lollipops. Through suffering we are compelled to walk closer to Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Paul desired sufferings and death. His desires were fulfilled by his faith.

But sufferings is not for all (Luke 21:36) as it's God's will for many to escape sufferings by faith.

So don't confuse between desires and faith.

 

[Absolutely]

You claim you believe now what do you believe? Do you believe what you like or do you believe all of scripture?

Ac 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake.

Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1Pe 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness’ sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

The path we trod is not all roses and lollipops. Through suffering we are compelled to walk closer to Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If you believe the walk is 100% suffering,your view/belief is not biblical.

Get a bible and read it.

 

[wolfwint]

Jesus stated Mark 9:23 in the context of faith in Him accomplishing healing.
But you don't teach Jesus as the mediator for healing. You make christians depend on you as their mediator to God.

Sorry, but what you are talking about? I never said that people should go to certain healers, nor I said they should come to me.

 

[Sudakar]

Remember the blood applied to the door post was an umbrella covering for salvation from death.

Then,in the wilderness.
The serpent, a type of christ,was used to heal.

Healing is part of salvation.
Once that Avenue is opened...a glorious adventure opens to the believer.

But much stalking from the enemy. Much peril.

Very true.

Judges 3:1,2: "These are the nations the LORD left to test all those Israelites who had not experienced any of the wars in Canaan

3:2 (he did this only to teach warfare to the descendants of the Israelites who had not had previous battle experience)".

Heaven is not the primary goal. Learning to fight the good fight of faith is. That alone pleases God.

 

[wolfwint]

If you believe the walk is 100% suffering,your view/belief is not biblical.

Get a bible and read it.

Persecution for an Christian is more promissed for an Follower of Christ, then an healthy/ wealthy life here on earth.

 

[Sudakar]

Sorry, but what you are talking about? I never said that people should go to certain healers, nor I said they should come to me.

Your prayers for the sick is meaningless unless it's based on Christ's mediatorship through atonement.
You must be a Mormon/jw to deny Christ's mediatorship for healing through His atonement!

 

[Sudakar]

Persecution for an Christian is more promissed for an Follower of Christ, then an healthy/ wealthy life here on earth.

Then why do you pray for the sick?

 

[Absolutely]

If I am born into a family and my father is a doctor,will he help me if I am sick?
Or should he ignore my infirmity to teach me things?
Should he expose me to aids to teach me something?
Is his will to sit idle and watch me suffer and die?

He would be a pervert. A wicked father. Nazi spirit.

No brainer. He would help me every time.

 

[notuptome]

If I am born into a family and my father is a doctor,will he help me if I am sick?
Or should he ignore my infirmity to teach me things?
Should he expose me to aids to teach me something?
Is his will to sit idle and watch me suffer and die?

He would be a pervert. A wicked father. Nazi spirit.

No brainer. He would help me every time.

Get that bible out that you accuse others of not reading. Snowflake Christians melt at the least little tribulation.

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[wolfwint]

Then why do you pray for the sick?

Because, If one Part of the body is suffering, then the whole body is suffering. We should pray for each other, this includes also if someone is sick. So our Part is to pray, Gods Part is to answer in the way he choose.

 

[Absolutely]

Get that bible out that you accuse others of not reading. Snowflake Christians melt at the least little tribulation.

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Amen
Good verses brother.
We agree

 

[Angela53510]

You: The living hope of a healthy wealthy life is a lie, because its not given as a promisse.
Me: Mathew 8: 17 is a promise for believers.

You: Despair comes then when you promisse something what is not coming true.
Me: You doubt faith in Christ's blood to heal?

You: And in this case you give the blame to the one who search healing, because if he is not healed, then because of lack faith.
Me: Faith is tested.

Matt 8:17 is NOT a promise for believers! It clearly says it "was" (past tense) to fulfill an OT prophecy concerning the Messiah.

In fact, if you read it properly, in context, it refers to many healings Jesus has just done, to fulfill the prophecy.

"When Jesus came into Peter’s home, He saw his mother-in-law lying sick in bed with a fever. 15 He touched her hand, and the fever left her; and she got up and waited on Him. 16 When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: “He Himself took our infirmities and carried away our diseases.” Matt 8:14-17

This is not future tense. It is not a promise to all who follow Jesus. It is the fulfillment of Isa. 53:4. It is proof to the Jews that Jesus was who he said he was.

This confusion you have is because you don't read the Bible in context. You listen to these lying televangelists, Who pull out proof texts and make wrong pronouncements because they either do not understand hermeneutics, or they are outright lying to fleece the flock.

Get out a Bible without slippery footnotes, and read the Bible from cover to cover. If you read 3 OT chapters a day, with one NT chapter, you can read through the Bible in a year. And read a book or take a course on hermeneutics. If you dare to know the truth!

PS I believe God heals when it is his will. But these days, that is not often as that one day in Matt 8, nor is it the fault of the believer who is not healed. I was rejected by 2 Word Faith friends, because they prayed and I was not healed of a serious and debilitating disease. It caused me to turn away from God for 2 years. But God called me back! And he is transforming me.

This idea that you are a failure if you are not healed is a doctrine of demons and faith destroying!

 

[wolfwint]

Your prayers for the sick is meaningless unless it's based on Christ's mediatorship through atonement.
You must be a Mormon/jw to deny Christ's mediatorship for healing through His atonement!

Who says? You seems me not to in the Position to say which prayer to God is meaningless ore is not.
It is not my prayer which heals. Jesus is not the Mediator, he is Doctor who heals.

Btw I an no Mormon/Jw.

 

[CS1]

Nonsense. There can no response be given to Jesus and His word in Mark 9:23.

you think you your understanding is the words of Jesus that is where we disagree. Your pride

 

[Sudakar]

Get that bible out that you accuse others of not reading. Snowflake Christians melt at the least little tribulation.

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The purpose of chastening is to enable christians have faith and believe His atonement for anything.

 

[Sudakar]

you think you your understanding is the words of Jesus that is where we disagree. Your pride

Pride is denying the atonement for healing and trusting in mediators like medical doctor and prayers of elders.

 

[Sudakar]

Who says? You seems me not to in the Position to say which prayer to God is meaningless ore is not.
It is not my prayer which heals. Jesus is not the Mediator, he is Doctor who heals.

Btw I an no Mormon/Jw.

1 Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".

Those who deny God's word which says Christ is the only mediator, as you do, are heretics.

 

[Sudakar]

Matt 8:17 is NOT a promise for believers! It clearly says it "was" (past tense) to fulfill an OT prophecy concerning the Messiah.

In fact, if you read it properly, in context, it refers to many healings Jesus has just done, to fulfill the prophecy.

"When Jesus came into Peter’s home, He saw his mother-in-law lying sick in bed with a fever. 15 He touched her hand, and the fever left her; and she got up and waited on Him. 16 When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: “He Himself took our infirmities and carried away our diseases.” Matt 8:14-17

This is not future tense. It is not a promise to all who follow Jesus. It is the fulfillment of Isa. 53:4. It is proof to the Jews that Jesus was who he said he was.

This confusion you have is because you don't read the Bible in context. You listen to these lying televangelists, Who pull out proof texts and make wrong pronouncements because they either do not understand hermeneutics, or they are outright lying to fleece the flock.

Get out a Bible without slippery footnotes, and read the Bible from cover to cover. If you read 3 OT chapters a day, with one NT chapter, you can read through the Bible in a year. And read a book or take a course on hermeneutics. If you dare to know the truth!

PS I believe God heals when it is his will. But these days, that is not often as that one day in Matt 8, nor is it the fault of the believer who is not healed. I was rejected by 2 Word Faith friends, because they prayed and I was not healed of a serious and debilitating disease. It caused me to turn away from God for 2 years. But God called me back! And he is transforming me.

This idea that you are a failure if you are not healed is a doctrine of demons and faith destroying!

Y (You): Matt 8:17 is NOT a promise for believers! It clearly says it "was" (past tense) to fulfill an OT prophecy concerning the Messiah.
M (Me): Mat 8:17 is from Isa 53:4 along with Christ's atonement (Isa53:12) are written to believers (Isa53:1).

Y: When Jesus came into Peter’s home, He saw his mother-in-law lying sick in bed with a fever. 15 He touched her hand, and the fever left her; and she got up and waited on Him.
M: Don't confuse between sign healing and healing through faith in Christ's atonement (Isa53:4).

Y: This confusion you have is because you don't read the Bible in context. You listen to these lying televangelists, Who pull out proof texts and make wrong pronouncements because they either do not understand hermeneutics, or they are outright lying to fleece the flock.
M: Don't listen to lying teachers who don't understand Isa 53 as a prophecy of Christ's atonement both for the body and soul of the elect.

Y: Get out a Bible without slippery footnotes, and read the Bible from cover to cover. If you read 3 OT chapters a day, with one NT chapter, you can read through the Bible in a year. And read a book or take a course on hermeneutics. If you dare to know the truth!
M: First read and understand Isa 53 as a chapter on Christ's atonement rather than blabber nonsense in the name of hermeneutics.

Y: I believe God heals when it is his will. But these days, that is not often as that one day in Matt 8, nor is it the fault of the believer who is not healed. I was rejected by 2 Word Faith friends, because they prayed and I was not healed of a serious and debilitating disease. It caused me to turn away from God for 2 years. But God called me back! And he is transforming me.
M: Nonsense. Don't trust in healers. Believe in Christ's atonement for healing of your body according to Mark 9:23. And don't justify little faith. Little faith had consequences like His disciples failing to fulfil their mission (Read Matt17:20).

Y: This idea that you are a failure if you are not healed is a doctrine of demons and faith destroying!
M: If you want to remain sick do so. But don't hinder others from growing in faith. If sickness was godly, God would've created a world with sickness.
Don't deny His atonement for healing and talk hypocritically about faith destruction!!

 

[Sudakar]

Because, If one Part of the body is suffering, then the whole body is suffering. We should pray for each other, this includes also if someone is sick. So our Part is to pray, Gods Part is to answer in the way he choose.

You said, "Persecution for an Christian is more promissed for an Follower of Christ, then an healthy/ wealthy life here on earth". If one part of the body suffers you should thank God rather than pray for healing.
Don't contradict yourself like hypocrites.