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EleventhHour

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#135,421
blue_ladybug said:
For the record, it makes no difference at all whether one person has "been Christian longer than" another. We all become Christians at different times. :) just saying..
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Amen!
I was pondering this very thing yesterday.;)
Many grow to maturity very quickly and others do not.... time is not the only factor.

Thanks for your support yesterday Blue... much appreciated.
You exemplify much maturity!!
 
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Judges1318

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Nov 16, 2019
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mailmandan said:
I showed you in verse 10 where the writer of Hebrews said, "WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" and in verse 14, "perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified." Yet you try to argue that "forever" here does not really mean forever or "once for all/for all time" does not really mean once for all/for all time and merely applies to the offering of the body of Jesus Christ, but not to the person who is sanctified.
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"25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself." - Hebrews 9:25-26

"10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." - Hebrews 10:10-14 (caps in original)

It says the sanctified person is perfected for all time because sin guilt gets taken away in just one sacrifice of Jesus, not because the sanctified person can't lose the one time sacrifice that takes away sin guilt completely in one shot. This is made even more apparent when we continue reading and we see the author's warning for this very same sanctified person to not trample on and profane the sacrifice by which he was sanctified:

"29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" - Hebrews 10:29

Of course, osas doesn't allow this sanctified person trampling on Christ to be the same one who was cleansed of sin guilt and made perfect in vs. 10 & 14, so it says this sanctified person must be the fake believing, sanctified unbeliever in the congregation. Besides that interpretation so blatantly defying the context, we know from 1 Corinthians 5 and 2 Corinthians 6 that God has in no way shape or form cleanses (sanctifies) fake believers to be yoked with and fellowship with unbelievers.

9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister c but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.” - 1 Corinthians 5:9-13


"14Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15What harmony is there between Christ and Belial b ? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“I will live with them
and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they will be my people.” c
17Therefore,

“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.” - 2 Corinthians 6:14-17

What you haven't done, mailman, is prove the existence of a sanctified unbeliever made clean by God and approved for fellowship with the church--one that doesn't violate the conditions above--to which the author of Hebrews is addressing his warning. You can't use the unbelieving spouse made clean for contact by the believing spouse. That person is declared clean for contact by the believer in his household. They can't fellowship with and be yoked with the church either.

Prove to me that the sanctified person in Hebrews 10:29 is a sanctified fake believer for whom 1 Corinthians 5 and 2 Corinthians 6 does not apply. That's what you have not done yet.
 
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Judges1318

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Nov 16, 2019
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#135,424
John146 said:
Do you believe James to be doctrine for us? Then everyone who is sick and has elders pray over them, they will be healed.
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....if they have faith.
Both, the elder praying, and the person being prayed for.
That's what the passage says......"the prayer of faith" (James 5:15).

"And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” - Matthew 21:22


.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#135,426
Jan 13, 2016
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#135,426
Judges1318 said:
....if they have faith.
Both, the elder praying, and the person being prayed for.
That's what the passage says......"the prayer of faith" (James 5:15).

"And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” - Matthew 21:22


.
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Nope, only the one praying needs faith, the faith of the elders. Nothing in James 5 mentions the faith of the sick.
 
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Judges1318

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John146 said:
Nope, only the one praying needs faith, the faith of the elders. Nothing in James 5 mentions the faith of the sick.
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For someone who talks about 'rightly dividing the word of God' you ignore more Biblical context than anyone I've seen.
You can't lift James 5:15 out of the context of everything that the Bible says about praying for the sick.
You must 'rightly' divide it from the whole counsel of scripture.
 
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Judges1318

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EleventhHour said:
Find the post.
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mailmandan said:
So as I said before, after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
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He is old school osas. He says the one who seemingly stopped believing was never a believer to begin with. He says the sanctified person in Hebrews 10:29 who tramples on the body of Christ is the fake believer who never really believed who dwells among us in the church--a sanctified unbeliever.

I have the funny feeling you're suddenly going to agree with him and it won't be the epic fail you said it was, even though his doctrine is so drastically contrary to your new style osas beliefs.
 
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EleventhHour

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#135,432
#135,432
Judges1318 said:
He is old school osas. He says the one who seemingly stopped believing was never a believer to begin with. He says the sanctified person in Hebrews 10:29 who tramples on the body of Christ is the fake believer who never really believed who dwells among us in the church--a sanctified unbeliever.

I have the funny feeling you're suddenly going to agree with him and it won't be the epic fail you said it was, even though his doctrine is so drastically contrary to your new style osas beliefs.
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I have read what he posted, I do have a different understanding, however, he in no way is stating that these Jews were spiritually sanctified/saved/justified .....only that the word can also mean set apart within that context.

All you have done again is demonstrate once again how you twist people's words.
 
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John146

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#135,433
Judges1318 said:
For someone who talks about 'rightly dividing the word of God' you ignore more Biblical context than anyone I've seen.
You can't lift James 5:15 out of the context of everything that the Bible says about praying for the sick.
You must 'rightly' divide it from the whole counsel of scripture.
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Rightly dividing James places the audience as the twelve tribes scattered abroad, not the body of Christ.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

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Aug 16, 2019
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#135,434
blue_ladybug said:
For the record, it makes no difference at all whether one person has "been Christian longer than" another. We all become Christians at different times. :) just saying..
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He was pushing his Christian longevity on me, using it as some form of weapon. I guess I was supposed to be impressed or intimidated. I merely pointed out the fact that I came to the Lord before he did. 😊 Just saying.
 
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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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#135,435
Judges1318 said:
He is old school osas. He says the one who seemingly stopped believing was never a believer to begin with. He says the sanctified person in Hebrews 10:29 who tramples on the body of Christ is the fake believer who never really believed who dwells among us in the church--a sanctified unbeliever.

I have the funny feeling you're suddenly going to agree with him and it won't be the epic fail you said it was, even though his doctrine is so drastically contrary to your new style osas beliefs.
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Again, you fail to rightly divide the audience as the Jews in the last days. If they sin willfully, taking the mark, there is no more sacrifice for them. The only way to “trample on the blood of Christ” is to take the mark and worship the image.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#135,436
#135,436
Judges1318 said:
He is old school osas. He says the one who seemingly stopped believing was never a believer to begin with. He says the sanctified person in Hebrews 10:29 who tramples on the body of Christ is the fake believer who never really believed who dwells among us in the church--a sanctified unbeliever.

I have the funny feeling you're suddenly going to agree with him and it won't be the epic fail you said it was, even though his doctrine is so drastically contrary to your new style osas beliefs.
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Anyway going back and not understanding Hebrews, does not help you resolve the dilemma you are in with regards to John 3:1-21?

Still waiting......
 
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Judges1318

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#135,438
EleventhHour said:
I have read what he posted, I do have a different understanding, however, he in no way is stating that these Jews were spiritually sanctified/saved/justified .....
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Correct, he said they were sanctified unbelievers.
The thing you said this to:
EleventhHour said:
Epic FAIL right here!!
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Did you forget?
 
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