Catholicism vs Protestantism

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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That's not how he used their "unknown god", at all. Not to tell them they were on the right track, really? No, he was using their shrine to ignorance to proclaim the true God even within their worldview. He is basically saying, "see here this god you do not know, this void in your knowledge, well it just so happens, I know this God, here let me tell you about Him...."

This was not in any way telling them, to quote you directly, "Paul basically goes on to say that they are on the right track, but they need some corrections here and there." No, he was saying, "Sit down, let me tell you about this God you don't know". I'm not trying to "attack" or "correct" you in any kind of condescending way, it's just when I read that it didn't sound right to me at all. Maybe I'm reading of taking you wrong, if so then I'm interested to hear how.
I do think that Paul is saying that the Athenians and the Greeks in general were on the right track. I'm not implying in any way that they were close to the finish line!

But the same God that Paul is talking about? I think so, based on what he goes on to say
Acts 17: 28 'For in him we live, and move, and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also his offspring.'

We are the offspring of the true God or the false god?
Acts 17: 29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man.

So they were right about some things, God isn't far from anyone, and we are his children. But they were wrong about other things, like God wanting statues made of him.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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No, I do not believe that Muslims adore Jesus as a God.

Myself, I'm not really big on trying to figure out if Muslims are worshiping the same God as Christians or not. If I have to give an opinion, then yes, I think they do.
If someone says that since Jesus is God, if Muslims don't worship Jesus, then they don't worship the same God. But I think this brings up the philosophical question of when something can be said to be the same or when it is different. and it's because of that philosophical question that I wouldn't go around saying that Muslims worship the same God or a different god.

At the same time, neither would I say that someone who says that Muslims worship the same God as Christians can't be a Christian. If I remember right, one of the reasons you said that Catholics weren't Christians is because of this issue about Muslims worshiping the same God.

You may be interested in this
"My take is that as long as a person understands the basic metaphysical truth that God is “the one, merciful God,” then errors concerning what God has said, or what he has revealed about his inner life are simply errors about those things, not about God as the one, true God"
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/do-muslims-worship-the-same-god-catholics-do
Not only error, but attack the foundation of Christian faith

The foundation of Christian faith is
Believe Jesus God, believe Jesus die for our sin, believe Jesus raise from the dead.

Muslim deny that. Error is bad, but attack is worse

That attack only prove they adore Lucifer.

Who behind this believe

Must be God biggest enemy, lucifer
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I agree that Jesus and the father are one, and thank you for the response. But it doesn't quite answer the question, "Do you believe that the Father and Jesus are separate in some way?"
I'll ask a similar question in case that one isn't clear.
Are Jesus and the Father the same in every respect?
I don't know, if you think that way, give me a verse
If I have to express an opinion about it, yes.
So you believe God that tell Christian : "Jesus die on the cross, tell mohammad, Jesus not die on the cross"

Are you accuse god liar
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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True! At the same time, what does a person have to say about God in order for me to say that it is the same God that I worship?
Again, it's a philosophical
This is not philosophical. It is simple

Muslim god not teach salvation by Jesus die on the cross, so Muslim god is not Christian god

Catholic tend to manipulate, make easier to promote one world religion.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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If I have to give an opinion, yes.

No, that part they've got wrong.


No, not really. I am interested in the unity of the body of Christ!
1 Corinthians 1: 10 Now I beg you, brothers, through the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

This is my feeling, as well.

Divisions is a work of the flesh. If it turns out that you are promoting a division in the body of Christ based on something that is your personal opinion, that might turn out to be bad for you.


I disagree.
So you believe Islam worship Christian god

Is that mean they save, because worship true God?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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If they reject Jesus, then no, they cannot be saved.
I believe the verse refers to those who haven't heard the good news of Jesus Christ!


So Muslim worship Christian god, but don't believe Jesus is God, than Muslim not save am I correct?

Worship Christian god doesn't mean worship Jesus?
Than who is Christian god?
 
Excuse me, I thought we were discussing what the bible has to say about it. But what is different? Paul was imprisoned for his conversion and teaching by Rome (and him a citizen). Daniel in Persia comes to mind - thrown to lions because he refused to follow man's law rather than God's. Think they had easy decisions? Me, neither. I hope I never have to make such a choice... it is sorrowful that the muslim finds himself in such a position if convicted of Christ.
This showed me that you have no idea about other religion that existed in this wide world. I dont blame you for this ecause I understand that in your country only 1 religion ie Christianity.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Not only error, but attack the foundation of Christian faith

The foundation of Christian faith is
Believe Jesus God, believe Jesus die for our sin, believe Jesus raise from the dead.

Muslim deny that. Error is bad, but attack is worse

That attack only prove they adore Lucifer.

Who behind this believe

Must be God biggest enemy, lucifer
To me, that sounds like an opinion. And of course, everyone is welcome to their opinion.

It seems to me that every false religion is going to contain an attack on some foundational aspect of Christianity.

If a person expresses a different opinion than yourself on this matter, do you say that because of that they cannot be a Christian, a member of the body of Christ?

The Catholic leadership has expressed a different opinion than yourself on this matter.
If on the basis of that opinion you exclude them, I believe you would also have to exclude me, since if I have to express an opinion on this matter, I would basically say the same thing they do.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I don't know, if you think that way, give me a verse
If you don't know, then how can you say that someone who is in error about Jesus can't believe that the true God exists?

So you believe God that tell Christian : "Jesus die on the cross, tell mohammad, Jesus not die on the cross"

Are you accuse god liar
No, I don't believe God told Christians one thing and Muslims another.
I think the Koran, what little I've read of it, gets some things right, and a lot of things wrong!
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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This is not philosophical. It is simple

Muslim god not teach salvation by Jesus die on the cross, so Muslim god is not Christian god

Catholic tend to manipulate, make easier to promote one world religion.
I disagree that it is simple.

Hindus who talk about Christ consciousness, same God with errors? Or different God?

Oneness Pentecostals, same God with errors? Or different God?

Jehovah's witnesses? same God with errors? Or different God?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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So you believe Islam worship Christian god

Is that mean they save, because worship true God?
No, as a group, they are not saved.
If I have to give an opinion, I say that guess Muslims are worshipping the true God, but with serious errors!
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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So Muslim worship Christian god, but don't believe Jesus is God, than Muslim not save am I correct?
As a group, Muslims are not saved. No doubt some of them who haven't heard an accurate message about Jesus are on the path to salvation and will end up being saved.

Worship Christian god doesn't mean worship Jesus?
Than who is Christian god?
I believe your logic requires that Jesus is the totality of God. But you say that you are not sure if Jesus and the father are the same in every respect.
I think it would be good for you to take a position on that issue before continuing along this line of reasoning.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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To me, that sounds like an opinion. And of course, everyone is welcome to their opinion.

It seems to me that every false religion is going to contain an attack on some foundational aspect of Christianity.

If a person expresses a different opinion than yourself on this matter, do you say that because of that they cannot be a Christian, a member of the body of Christ?

The Catholic leadership has expressed a different opinion than yourself on this matter.
If on the basis of that opinion you exclude them, I believe you would also have to exclude me, since if I have to express an opinion on this matter, I would basically say the same thing they do.
My brother, we have to distinguish between wrong an attack.
Lucifer is smart, he attack in away look like only accidentally mistake.

What Catholic doing is deliberately attack Jesus, but they do it in away so Christian not see it

Let talk about what you believe.

You believe Muslim God is also Christian god

This Muslim god tell mohammad that

1. Jesus not god

2 Jesus not die on the crosd

And you believe that god is also Christian god.

That mean you believe Christian god say Jesus not die on the cross.

And that is because you believe catholic more than bible.

It your choice my friend, nothing I can do.
In this case you can't chose both

Obvious catholic attack bible, how catholic approve lucifer that say Jesus not die on the cross also Christian god?

This not only mistake but deliberately attack

That way I believe catholic is not only not Christian, but luciferian that try to destroy the foundation of Christian faith.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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No, I don't believe God told Christians one thing and Muslims another.
My friend, I am from Muslim country, went to public school, there was only 2 Christian student in my class, me and my cousin. They not force me to be Muslim, but they have Muslim class,

That what I learn about Muslim belief.

They believe, Quran is a revelation from God, not inspiration like Christian believe.

They believe every time god want to speak to mohammad, he want to a cave call Hiram, then an angle Gibraltar come to him and tell the story

Mohammad memorized it than tell to writer, because they believe mohammad illiterate

This is one of Muslim God told mohammad through gibril

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, surah 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157–158[3]

To me it prove Islam god is not Christian god

To say we adore the one god is a lie and direct attack of the foundation of Christian faith.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I disagree that it is simple.

Hindus who talk about Christ consciousness, same God with errors? Or different God?

Oneness Pentecostals, same God with errors? Or different God?

Jehovah's witnesses? same God with errors? Or different God?
Hindu worship different god

Oneness, I don't know, I never learn their doctrine, being grow in Mennonite and now Baptist, because no Mennonite in my town, and basically same jesus.

Jehovah's witnesses, different god, because don't believe Jesus is a god

And you agree true god not say one thing to Muslim and another to Christian.

I believe oneness have the same bible, they may interprate differently

Catholic base on bible and tradition, so different foundation
Muslim use Quran. Different foundation
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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My brother, we have to distinguish between wrong an attack.
Lucifer is smart, he attack in away look like only accidentally mistake.
I think all false religions contain attacks on the foundations of Christianity.

What Catholic doing is deliberately attack Jesus, but they do it in away so Christian not see it
Now you are able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the hearts of other people?

Let talk about what you believe.

You believe Muslim God is also Christian god

This Muslim god tell mohammad that

1. Jesus not god

2 Jesus not die on the crosd

And you believe that god is also Christian god.
I believe what you are saying does not follow logically.
It is possible to say that someone worships true God, but that they are incorrect about the Revelation that they claim to receive from the true God.


That mean you believe Christian god say Jesus not die on the cross.
Again, that does not follow.

And that is because you believe catholic more than bible.
You are incorrect again. Where do you get these ideas?

It your choice my friend, nothing I can do.
In this case you can't chose both

Obvious catholic attack bible, how catholic approve lucifer that say Jesus not die on the cross also Christian god?

This not only mistake but deliberately attack

That way I believe catholic is not only not Christian, but luciferian that try to destroy the foundation of Christian faith.
I believe what you are using there is a combination of not so good logic and your belief that you have the power to read other people's hearts and minds.