The false early rapture timing doctrine

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John146 said:
Have you plucked your eye out or cut your hand off? Have you’ve gone to present your gift before an alter? The Church has no alter. That’s an OT Jewish thing. Do you always give to those who ask? Every bigger on the street? I could go on and on showing the sermon on the mount is for the Jews and not the body of Christ. There were no Christians present at the sermon.
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Sinners need to pluck their eyes out.
 
CS1 said:
Ok it is no more a false teaching(doctrine) than post trib or No trib rapture. The collective understanding of the church orthodox teaching is the known as the "imminence" of the Lord coming. Calling the Pretrib Rapture false and suggesting those who hold to it are minster of satan is ignorance. Also you should know what you are talking about in context to where the teaching came from, it came from the Word of God and it was not only 1thess 4:13-18. Jesus is the one by where this teaching was established first. Found in John 14:3 "I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there you maybe also".

Paul the Apostle and he was the apostle to the Gentiles church, was given a special revelation from the Lord Himself regarding the details of what is known as the "Rapture" and it's relationship to the Resurrection. 1cor Paul speaks of the Rapture of the church together with bodily resurrection of deceased believers:

"Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed" (15:51,52,NASB)

I guess we will assume Paul taught doctrines of devils?

Aslo 2thess 2:1 speaks of this.
It is not just 1thess chapter 4:13-18 that your assertion of the doctrine of the Rapture was built on but many scriptures.

and those who spoke of it were:

  1. The Lord Jesus John 14, Matthew 24
  2. Paul 1Thess 4:13-18, Titus 2:13, 1cor 15:51-52, 2thess 2:1
  3. John in the book of Rev 19 coming with HIS saint
There is many scripture to support this understanding. Do you have to agree? No. Is it doctrine of devils from minister of satan? No. Will the pre-trib christian more saved than the post-trip? No. is post-trib a doctrine of devils? No.

The Tribulation Period as it is revealed in Daniel and the Book of Revelation is Gods Judge and Wrath poured out on the earth.
In Revelation chapter 6 is the starting of Gods wrath being poured out on the earth after the Lamb open or breaks the first seal.
Rev 6:1 the four Horsemen come. verse 6:17 says:

"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"(KJV)

I have not been subject to Gods wrath, nor has the church of the living God which are not here after chapter 4 of REV.
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The argument regarding the rapture is not whether there will be one but the timing of it with regard to the tribulation period.
The teachings regarding it are mainly based on Scriptural interpretations rather that the plain text
 
Dave-L said:
Departure = falling away into apostasy.View attachment 215205
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Okay, so your image showing mostly the word "PIPTO" ('to fall') demonstrates what, exactly (with regard to the actual word under discussion, in v.3... which is not "pipto [to fall--a verb, by the way]")?



[and if you're going to point out its RELATION to the word "aphistemi," then see this carries a "geographical/spatial" meaning, as here: https://biblehub.com/text/acts/12-10.htm ]
 
Dave-L said:
Fall = down, not up.
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I'm pointing out that the Greek word for "fall" is not there [verse 3].


Also, as pointed out in past posts, the first 7 English translations of the Bible translated this word (in v.3) as "the departure / the departing" BEFORE the kjv came along (later) and changed the word to "a falling away" (dropping the definite article ['the'], while they were at it).


And I'd added: "[and if you're going to point out its RELATION to the word "aphistemi," then see this carries a "geographical/spatial" meaning, as here: https://biblehub.com/text/acts/12-10.htm ] "
 
Re: the word in verse 3


Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon [1871] says, "apostasia - LATER FORM FOR apostasis"...

[and says]

-- apo stasis = "apo [G575] =away" & "stasis [G4714] =a standing" [^ same word there ^] = "a standing away from [a previous standing]" or "a DEPARTURE"



(context determines just "WHAT KIND" of "DEPARTURE" is meant... and the definite article [otherwise unnecessary with this Greek word] refers to a definite event, one previously referred to in the context)...
 
Dave-L said:
Jesus said to his present audience to leave town when they saw the Roman armies. That it was the worst tribulation ever, never to be seen again.
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You mean this from Matthew 24? Then you should read the Context. The Text cant mean only the Romans.
Btw, the babylonians were not Less worse in 586/587.
 
wolfwint said:
You mean this from Matthew 24? Then you should read the Context. The Text cant mean only the Romans.
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Right.

The SEQUENCE issues in the Olivet Discourse informs us that only Lk21:12-24 takes place "BEFORE" the beginning of birth pangs, whereas the Matthew 24 section (Matt24:15,21 in particular, "GREAT tribulation, such as was not since... nor ever shall be") occurs AFTER "the beginning of birth pangs".

Though there are SIMILARITIES within each of these sections, they are indeed distinct happenings occurring at wholly distinct time-periods (not to mention they each are described in completely distinct ways).
 
CS1 said:
Calling the Pretrib Rapture false and suggesting those who hold to it are minster of satan is ignorance.
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It's worse than that. It is making false accusations against genuine Christians.

There is absolutely no connection between the Rapture and any tribulation period.
 
(Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken)

(Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other)
 
Also just a word of advice for everyone while debating the rapture can be useful we all know how these threads end up so just be careful not to get stuck in a rabbit hole of war
 
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azamzimtoti said:
He's got other forums boards that "ye know not of" to attend to.
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I figured as much. I am wondering what his purpose is I have my suspicions but no evidence. He could just be posting it on random forums to shove it down ppls throats but I know of an atheist forum where there is a group of people will go to Christians forums to troll Christians. There was one guy who even boasted what he did here on cc he made a thread about the rapture and laughed as everyone argued and attacked one another. He said we were so easy to to mess with, that was a a few years ago and I don't know what became of him or that forum but the op has the same kind of style so I am not sure
 
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