The false early rapture timing doctrine

[Dave-L]

70 AD is the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen or ever will we?🤦‍♂️

According to Jesus.

 

[John146]

The great tribulation was for the Jews and happened in 70AD. All Christians endure tribulation as our calling. Death is the only escape. The rapture happens after the resurrection on the last day. Do you count it an honor to suffer and die for Jesus?

There’s more than one resurrection in Scripture. You have to rightly divide the word to see the separation from the body of Christ and the Jewish saints in the future time of Jacob’s trouble.

 

[John146]

The church is not appointed to wrath. Those saints in the tribulation will be Jewish. The tribulation is focused on Israel not the Gentile world as far as redemption is concerned. The tribulation signals the end of the times of the Gentiles.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

We understand this, but apparently Dave cannot see it.

 

[Dave-L]

There’s more than one resurrection in Scripture. You have to rightly divide the word to see the separation from the body of Christ and the Jewish saints in the future time of Jacob’s trouble.

There are two resurrections on the last day separated by the rapture.

 

[John146]

According to Jesus.

Well, I guess this so called great tribulation fell woefully short of it’s description given in Matthew.🤦‍♂️

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[John146]

There are two resurrections on the last day separated by the rapture.

There are also two raptures in Scripture.

 

[Dave-L]

Well, I guess this so called great tribulation fell woefully short of it’s description given in Matthew.🤦‍♂️

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Do you think Jesus lied? Who was he speaking to when he said this? Was it the disciples? Did they do what he said? Why didn't any Christians perish in the war?

 

[Absolutely]

Question, what would be the purpose of only a small part of the body of Christ going through the tribulation?

The gt is Jacob's trouble.
It says "they washed their robes" concerning those that came out of the gt.
In the gt the world gets her king...the false Christ.
Jesus the king gets his bride.

End times is centered in the bride and groom.
The world and the ac are another dimension as are the covenant jews.
Jesus is the kinsman redeemer depicted in Ruth.
We see it opening up in rev 5.
A man was needed to open the seals.
A God Man opened them.
Kinsman. Kinsman redeemer.

The picture is huge.
Much bigger than the trubulation.

 

[Dave-L]

There are also two raptures in Scripture.

Only one leading up to believers at the end of the world.

 

[Absolutely]

There are also two raptures in Scripture.

6 for sure
Possibly 7 counting the 144k

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"But Christians are not appointed to wrath." Correct. The great tribulation is not God's wrath, but when the Restrainer is taken away, allowing the reign of the man of lawlessness, the anti-Christ, to begin. (2 Thessalonians 2)
The great tribulation is Satan's wrath (Revelation 12:12) unchecked and unchallenged because the Restrainer has been taken away.
God's wrath occurs during His great white thrown judgement. (Revelation 20)

1Th1:10, "the One delivering us [/the Church which is His body] out-from THE WRATH COMING"... This verse (and the one you supplied in 1Th5:9, neither one of these) specifies WHAT [/whose] WRATH, whether God's or Satan's or man's or whatever. It just says "out-from THE WRATH COMING" (and we know that Satan's "having great wrath" takes place at the MID-trib point, Rev12:12).

Additionally, I've made the point in past posts, that the phrasing in 2Th2:7b-8a is VERY SIMILAR to the language expressed in Lam2:3-4, where it says (in the midst of "WRATH" words), "He hath drawn back His right hand from before the enemy [/effectively saying 'HAVE AT 'EM!']" (very similar to verse 7b saying, "the one restraining at present, will restrain, until out of the midst he be come [/come to be]. AND THEN shall that Wicked BE REVEALED..." (this is at the START of the [7] trib years, when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" Isa3:13; Rev5:6; etc; so this "time-period" involves JUDGMENTS); Also, I've pointed out the seeming parallels between the SECOND SEAL item with that of the Ezekiel 38:18-19[-20; 39:7] "WRATH" words (that's also EARLY in the trib yrs).

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Unfortunately the ministers of Satan have taken simple to understand scripture and twisted it
to deceive unlearned Christians. The ministers of Satan teach that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

The reason that Satan's ministers have decided to teach this false timing rapture doctrine is because
scripture tells us the Antichrist must first come before the end.
If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

I would agree with most or all of what you said, but I wouldn't call them "ministers of Satan".

I would just call them misled or something like that.

Someone can be wrong and still be a Christian. I am definitely not a dispensationalist, but I don't claim they are necessarily false believers. I'm sure some are false believers, but many are just mistaken.

However, several of your points are very good.

 

[Dave-L]

We understand this, but apparently Dave cannot see it.

You are appointed to tribulation, not wrath. Many believers count it a privilege to suffer and die for Jesus.

 

[John146]

Do you think Jesus lied? Who was he speaking to when he said this? Was it the disciples? Did they do what he said? Why didn't any Christians perish in the war?

He was replying to the future tribulation, Jacob’s trouble. What occurred in 70 AD is a drop in the bucket to the future tribulation.

 

[John146]

You are appointed to tribulation, not wrath. Many believers count it a privilege to suffer and die for Jesus.

Ok, but the majority of Christians have not suffered for Christ and have not or will not die for Christ.

In what ways have you suffered for Christ? Do you believe you’ll die for Christ’s sake?

 

[Dave-L]

Ok, but the majority of Christians have not suffered for Christ and have not or will not die for Christ.

In what ways have you suffered for Christ? Do you believe you’ll die for Christ’s sake?

I've suffered persecution since I began living the Sermon on the Mount in the mid-70s. But unless you know me personally, there's no way to prove it.

 

[John146]

I've suffered persecution since I began living the Sermon on the Mount in the mid-70s. But unless you know me personally, there's no way to prove it.

Have you plucked your eye out or cut your hand off? Have you’ve gone to present your gift before an alter? The Church has no alter. That’s an OT Jewish thing. Do you always give to those who ask? Every bigger on the street? I could go on and on showing the sermon on the mount is for the Jews and not the body of Christ. There were no Christians present at the sermon.

 

[John146]

I've suffered persecution since I began living the Sermon on the Mount in the mid-70s. But unless you know me personally, there's no way to prove it.

Have you been threatened to be beheaded?

 

[CS1]

The early church understood this long before Margaret MacDonald began hallucinating in the 1800s.

smh Margaret MacDonald early Church Huh? a lady of the 1800's is the early church ?

Now if she would have been the one who used the term "harpazo" as Paul did you would have had something there LOL. And if she knew Latin you would have had something there too.

 

[Dave-L]

smh Margaret MacDonald early Church Huh? a lady of the 1800's is the early church ?

Now if she would have been the one who used the term "harpazo" as Paul did you would have had something there LOL. And if she knew Latin you would have had something there too.

The early church condemned Premillennialism as heresy. They established Amillennialism as what scripture teaches.