The false early rapture timing doctrine

[BlessedCreator]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Unfortunately the ministers of Satan have taken simple to understand scripture and twisted it
to deceive unlearned Christians. The ministers of Satan teach that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

The reason that Satan's ministers have decided to teach this false timing rapture doctrine is because
scripture tells us the Antichrist must first come before the end.
If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

 

[azamzimtoti]

How many different forum boards are you going to copy and paste this on?

 

[NotmebutHim]

How many different forum boards are you going to copy and paste this on?

So, this isn't y'all's first rodeo, I assume?

 

[azamzimtoti]

So, this isn't y'all's first rodeo, I assume?

I just googled part of his obvious copy and paste and it turned up on at least 4 other boards. There's more to come.

 

[wolfwint]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Unfortunately the ministers of Satan have taken simple to understand scripture and twisted it
to deceive unlearned Christians. The ministers of Satan teach that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

The reason that Satan's ministers have decided to teach this false timing rapture doctrine is because
scripture tells us the Antichrist must first come before the end.
If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

Well, we will see who is right. the pre, mid ore when Jesus returns rapture defender. I prefer the pre trib rapture
The important thing is that HE will find us prepared. Doesent matter when!
We should not judge someone because of this matter. Because nobody knows it. Its only speculation.

 

[Wall]

I just googled part of his obvious copy and paste and it turned up on at least 4 other boards. There's more to come.

Why does that bother you

 

[Dino246]

Popcorn thread!

 

[Blain]

Unlearned? tricked by satan's ministers? I can never understand why people have to be rude because they hold a different view of a doctrine and also arrogantly showing they know the truth and anyone who disagrees doesn't. Well if he comes back at the very least it will be.... interesting

 

[Blain]

Well, we will see who is right. the pre, mid ore when Jesus returns rapture defender. I prefer the pre trib rapture
The important thing is that HE will find us prepared. Doesent matter when!
We should not judge someone because of this matter. Because nobody knows it. Its only speculation.

I agree, there is no point in judging people over it and no matter when we think it will happen we don't have any concrete evidence. I mean I used to believe solely in the pretrib rapture but when I learned to open my mind more I saw evidence for pre pre rwrath mid and post so while I hope it is pretrib All I know is the bridegroom is coming ready or not.
Also Blessed creator with all do respect believe it or not but most people who believe in a pretrib rapture do not do so to escape suffering it would be wise to not assume you know peoples hearts search your own first

 

[wolfwint]

I agree, there is no point in judging people over it and no matter when we think it will happen we don't have any concrete evidence. I mean I used to believe solely in the pretrib rapture but when I learned to open my mind more I saw evidence for pre pre rwrath mid and post so while I hope it is pretrib All I know is the bridegroom is coming ready or not.
Also Blessed creator with all do respect believe it or not but most people who believe in a pretrib rapture do not do so to escape suffering it would be wise to not assume you know peoples hearts search your own first

Normaly nobody like suffering. But we know from the scripture that suffering because we are Follower of Christ is normal and promissed. For this to know we dont need a tribulation time. Many of our Brothers and sisters are suffering world wide yet.
We should be already for all Situation which will come.

 

[CS1]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Unfortunately the ministers of Satan have taken simple to understand scripture and twisted it
to deceive unlearned Christians. The ministers of Satan teach that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

The reason that Satan's ministers have decided to teach this false timing rapture doctrine is because
scripture tells us the Antichrist must first come before the end.
If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

Ok it is no more a false teaching(doctrine) than post trib or No trib rapture. The collective understanding of the church orthodox teaching is the known as the "imminence" of the Lord coming. Calling the Pretrib Rapture false and suggesting those who hold to it are minster of satan is ignorance. Also you should know what you are talking about in context to where the teaching came from, it came from the Word of God and it was not only 1thess 4:13-18. Jesus is the one by where this teaching was established first. Found in John 14:3 "I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there you maybe also".

Paul the Apostle and he was the apostle to the Gentiles church, was given a special revelation from the Lord Himself regarding the details of what is known as the "Rapture" and it's relationship to the Resurrection. 1cor Paul speaks of the Rapture of the church together with bodily resurrection of deceased believers:

"Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed" (15:51,52,NASB)

I guess we will assume Paul taught doctrines of devils?

Aslo 2thess 2:1 speaks of this.
It is not just 1thess chapter 4:13-18 that your assertion of the doctrine of the Rapture was built on but many scriptures.

and those who spoke of it were:

1. The Lord Jesus John 14, Matthew 24
2. Paul 1Thess 4:13-18, Titus 2:13, 1cor 15:51-52, 2thess 2:1
3. John in the book of Rev 19 coming with HIS saint

There is many scripture to support this understanding. Do you have to agree? No. Is it doctrine of devils from minister of satan? No. Will the pre-trib christian more saved than the post-trip? No. is post-trib a doctrine of devils? No.

The Tribulation Period as it is revealed in Daniel and the Book of Revelation is Gods Judge and Wrath poured out on the earth.
In Revelation chapter 6 is the starting of Gods wrath being poured out on the earth after the Lamb open or breaks the first seal.
Rev 6:1 the four Horsemen come. verse 6:17 says:

"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"(KJV)

I have not been subject to Gods wrath, nor has the church of the living God which are not here after chapter 4 of REV.

 

[jb]

nor has the church of the living God which are not here after chapter 4 of REV.

Really?

Rev 7v9,10,14 states: "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying,"Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" ...And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

To come "out of" (Greek prep. "ek") something, you first have to be "in it," these are Christians who have washed their robes in the Blood of the Lamb and come through the Great Tribulation with an overcoming faith and have "come out" of it by either martyrdom during it or by being raptured after it at the Lord's Second Coming along with the resurrected Church at the last (seventh) Trumpet. 1Cor 15v50-55, 2Thess 2v1-3, Rev 11v15-18.

 

[CS1]

Really?

Rev 7v9,10,14 states: "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying,"Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" ...And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

To come "out of" (Greek prep. "ek") something, you first have to be "in it," these are Christians who have washed their robes in the Blood of the Lamb and come through the Great Tribulation with an overcoming faith and have "come out" of it by either martyrdom during it or by being raptured after it at the Lord's Second Coming along with the resurrected Church at the last (seventh) Trumpet. 1Cor 15v50-55, 2Thess 2v1-3, Rev 11v15-18.

yea really, you are going to only take one quote the very last one none the less from the full context of my post ? then load it with two paragraphs LOL hahahaha. maybe you need to read it again LOL

 

[CS1]

Really?

Rev 7v9,10,14 states: "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying,"Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" ...And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

To come "out of" (Greek prep. "ek") something, you first have to be "in it," these are Christians who have washed their robes in the Blood of the Lamb and come through the Great Tribulation with an overcoming faith and have "come out" of it by either martyrdom during it or by being raptured after it at the Lord's Second Coming along with the resurrected Church at the last (seventh) Trumpet. 1Cor 15v50-55, 2Thess 2v1-3, Rev 11v15-18.

to come out of the Greek you first has to keep the context in it. "these christian with the washed robes are those who Came OUT of the Great tribulation you should have posted verse 13 it provides context to verse 14 I will post here for ya

"And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"

verse 14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Did I say those who were not saved and taken out of earth could not be saved in the Tribulation? no. And you can't separate that these because they were not correctly christian prior to the rapture as it is said " These are they" which came out of the great Tribulation.

 

[Dave-L]

The challenge for rapturists is to provide at least one direct quote saying a pre-trib rapture or a 7-year tribulation should be expected.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/rapture-top-dogs-admit-no-proof-exists.190008/

 

[CS1]

The challenge for rapturists is to provide at least one direct quote saying a pre-trib rapture or a 7-year tribulation should be expected.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/rapture-top-dogs-admit-no-proof-exists.190008/

LOL just as soon as you provide one direct quote saying there is not

 

[Dave-L]

LOL just as soon as you provide one direct quote saying there is not

The rapture;

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17)

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53)


But it happens after the resurrection. Which happens on the last day

“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” 1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV 1900)


“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28–29)

“And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” (John 6:39)

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:44 (HCSB)

“so man lies down and does not rise; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor arise from their sleep.” (Job 14:12) (NET)

 

[CS1]

The rapture;

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17)

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53)


But it happens after the resurrection. Which happens on the last day

“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” 1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV 1900)


“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28–29)

“And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” (John 6:39)

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:44 (HCSB)

“so man lies down and does not rise; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor arise from their sleep.” (Job 14:12) (NET)

I don't anywhere " there is no Pretrib Rapture ? Where did you formulate this concept clearly not from a direct quote?

As I stated earlier The Pretrin and Post trip doctrines are not of the devil or unbiblical they can be supported by the word of God yet they are not essentials other than what is known by the majority of Orthodox Christian theology as Immense coming of the Lord.

There you go.

 

[Dave-L]

I don't anywhere " there is no Pretrib Rapture ? Where did you formulate this concept clearly not from a direct quote?

As I stated earlier The Pretrin and Post trip doctrines are not of the devil or unbiblical they can be supported by the word of God yet they are not essentials other than what is known by the majority of Orthodox Christian theology as Immense coming of the Lord.

There you go.

You cannot prove something does not exist. But you cannot prove your claim that it exists and use scripture. The pre-trib rapture came from a 14-year-old girl burning up with a fever, while in a Pentecostal environment. Not from Scripture.

 

[CS1]

You cannot prove something does not exist. But you cannot prove your claim that it exists and use scripture. The pre-trib rapture came from a 14-year-old girl burning up with a fever, while in a Pentecostal environment. Not from Scripture.

and nor can you say it is unbiblical because you do not see it or those do not see it as you do. All you have to do is look at what was given from the Bible and use what was given and show where i am wrong.


Ok it is no more a false teaching(doctrine) than post trib or No trib rapture. The collective understanding of the church orthodox teaching is the known as the "imminence" of the Lord coming. Calling the Pretrib Rapture false and suggesting those who hold to it are minster of satan is ignorance. Also you should know what you are talking about in context to where the teaching came from, it came from the Word of God and it was not only 1thess 4:13-18. Jesus is the one by where this teaching was established first. Found in John 14:3 "I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there you maybe also".

Paul the Apostle and he was the apostle to the Gentiles church, was given a special revelation from the Lord Himself regarding the details of what is known as the "Rapture" and it's relationship to the Resurrection. 1cor Paul speaks of the Rapture of the church together with bodily resurrection of deceased believers:

"Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed" (15:51,52,NASB)

I guess we will assume Paul taught doctrines of devils?

Aslo 2thess 2:1 speaks of this.
It is not just 1thess chapter 4:13-18 that your assertion of the doctrine of the Rapture was built on but many scriptures.

and those who spoke of it were:

1. The Lord Jesus John 14, Matthew 24
2. Paul 1Thess 4:13-18, Titus 2:13, 1cor 15:51-52, 2thess 2:1
3. John in the book of Rev 19 coming with HIS saint

There is many scripture to support this understanding. Do you have to agree? No. Is it doctrine of devils from minister of satan? No. Will the pre-trib christian more saved than the post-trip? No. is post-trib a doctrine of devils? No.

The Tribulation Period as it is revealed in Daniel and the Book of Revelation is Gods Judge and Wrath poured out on the earth.
In Revelation chapter 6 is the starting of Gods wrath being poured out on the earth after the Lamb open or breaks the first seal.
Rev 6:1 the four Horsemen come. verse 6:17 says:

"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"(KJV)

I have not been subject to Gods wrath, nor has the church of the living God which are not here after chapter 4 of REV.