Not By Works
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Hebrews 6:4-6 is clearly discussing those who have been enlightened and tasted the Heavenly gift of Holy Spirit. In other words Born Again. Would you say at the point of receiving the heavenly free gift they were saved? If so and ones did fall away would it not be correct to say they lost salvation? or became unsaved? The verses in Hebrews 6:4-6 and Paul's words at Philippians 2:12 I believe do not support the idea of OSAS.
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1. Anyone who hears the gospel and sees its affect has tasted God
it does not mean they are saved.
2. the point is IF they fall away, it does not say they did, it’s a question
the answer is, they can never be renewed (re-saved)
phil 2:12 is about working out what God put in
if you think you can earn you salvation feel free to try
it does not mean they are saved.
2. the point is IF they fall away, it does not say they did, it’s a question
the answer is, they can never be renewed (re-saved)
phil 2:12 is about working out what God put in
if you think you can earn you salvation feel free to try
I didn't answer your previous question because I felt my previous posts were far from vague and ambiguous. I apologise if they were not so to you. I will reiterate:
What I believe the scriptures say is that a living faith is one that includes works in demonstration of that faith. I thought my previous posts made that very clear. If one says they have faith and does nothing in support of that claim i.e. works in demonstration of their claimed faith, their non action would belie their claim.
Your Quote: Are you saying that a person (upon initially placing their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation) - How would you say a person does this? Do you feel some action or works are required at this stage?
What I believe the scriptures say is that a living faith is one that includes works in demonstration of that faith. I thought my previous posts made that very clear. If one says they have faith and does nothing in support of that claim i.e. works in demonstration of their claimed faith, their non action would belie their claim.
Your Quote: Are you saying that a person (upon initially placing their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation) - How would you say a person does this? Do you feel some action or works are required at this stage?
Thank you for your further clarification. In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is evidenced, by works (James 2:14-26).
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified because of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). Agree or disagree?
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified because of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). Agree or disagree?
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I'm not making justification based on anything but faith, you're misunderstanding what I mean by works to mean things like fighting sin and doing good deeds or something along those lines. Works of faith are not such things, though they can be. James' example is of Abraham offering Isaac, which is the expression of the faith that Abraham had. It is in this way that "works" are necessary for faith, but again this isn't doing good deeds or not sinning or works of the law or any sort of work in that sense. It is the expression of the faith, "works" of salvation would be things like the singing and dancing joy that comes with freedom, a generosity that comes with knowing that God provides, and other expressions of faith.
As for sanctification, again, what's the point of splitting it up since it necessarily follows faith? What is the practical purpose of putting these things in neat little doctrinal boxes rather than treating them as they exist within the Christian life with it all mixed up and messy?
As for sanctification, again, what's the point of splitting it up since it necessarily follows faith? What is the practical purpose of putting these things in neat little doctrinal boxes rather than treating them as they exist within the Christian life with it all mixed up and messy?
I think he's saying your born again status can also die, but then that just a guess as he's all over the place.
Which would contradict this:
(John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
(John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Which would contradict this:
(John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
(John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
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Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.
This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.
It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.
It is impossible to come to repentance, be born again more that once... it is a one time deal. DONE
This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way!
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away,[b] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.
It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.
It is impossible to come to repentance, be born again more that once... it is a one time deal. DONE
This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way!
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away,[b] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
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