Are the pagan deities 'real'?

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Hungry

Banned
#121
Nov 26, 2012
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#121
BuffyLou said:
There is absolute truth. Truth is truth. A is A. It is possible to know the truth.

No. To 'believe' is a positive action. I cannot truthfully say I believe Jesus 'is Who He said He is'.

Be mindful of how you phrase the questions you put to me.
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You don’t believe Jesus is the Messiah? You don’t believe He is the Son of Yahweh, or you don’t believe Yahweh is the Creator? Is it impossible to believe that you are the intellectual property of a biological engineer? Is it hard to believe that as we make AI, that we are AI? Is it hard to fathom that maybe we were designed to be slaves like the Bible says? Also that maybe who created us to tend this planet while He was away possibly may return? Is it crazy to think that the pagan deities you originally inquired about were overseers. The term elohim means gods or heavenly beings. “Beings from the sky.”
Essentially the word literally means extra-terrestrials. It’s plural. The Bible and every other civilization talks about them. It would be foolish to dismiss their existence.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#122
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#122
Magenta said:
Either absolute Truth exists or nothing can be said to be absolutely true. You subscribe/adhere to the latter view. You stand on sinking sand.
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God created truth. We are completely dependent on
God for this truth, for it is what He created. Neither atheist or Christians can affect it in any way. God can help us know it. Without God's help man can not understand it.

A car is created and manufactured. We wouldn't ask if this car was really there or not, we accept that the car exists and is real. In the same way God created us, our world, how our world operates, the tides of the ocean, the results of sin. It is all truth, right down to the results of telling a lie.
 
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BuffyLou

Member
#123
Apr 14, 2020
263
15
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#123
Hungry said:
You don’t believe Jesus is the Messiah? You don’t believe He is the Son of Yahweh, or you don’t believe Yahweh is the Creator? Is it impossible to believe that you are the intellectual property of a biological engineer? Is it hard to believe that as we make AI, that we are AI? Is it hard to fathom that maybe we were designed to be slaves like the Bible says? Also that maybe who created us to tend this planet while He was away possibly may return? Is it crazy to think that the pagan deities you originally inquired about were overseers. The term elohim means gods or heavenly beings. “Beings from the sky.”
Essentially the word literally means extra-terrestrials. It’s plural. The Bible and every other civilization talks about them. It would be foolish to dismiss their existence.
Click to expand...
Whoa I wanna hear more about this
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#124
Nov 26, 2012
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#124
BuffyLou said:
Am I not here?

IF you mean to BELIEVE and have FAITH in God by which I may presume you mean the Christian God (Trinity or otherwise) I would have to make a circular argument: I would have to believe and to have faith.
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Understand this: belief in God (and the Trinity) will offer as much salvation as a life raft would if you stay on the sinking ship. It’s not that there is a God who saves. You have to get in the raft.
 
B

biker

Banned
#125
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
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#125
BuffyLou said:
Am I not here?

IF you mean to BELIEVE and have FAITH in God by which I may presume you mean the Christian God (Trinity or otherwise) I would have to make a circular argument: I would have to believe and to have faith.
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Explain to me this "Circular Argument," please? I was a rotten human being for many years, did things unthinkable, thought believing in God meant I would be a sissy, ran with people you would think were a nightmare if they showed up on your doorsteps. I was a Pagan, loved wiccan women, did the rituals because we were nekkid and it was an orgy afterwards. I am the person who faced death while screaming at God, "Bring it ON!!!!!

So, I am unfamiliar with this so-called "Circular Argument" you speak about.

As far as Faith and Belief goes, I once worshipped the Devil. Seen him face to face. Did his bidding for him. Without killing anyone, I was a modern day Saul of Taurus. I knew when I chose God WHO the ENEMY was on a personal basis. Trust me when I say, the Adversary is the "Real Deal." So is God!

Please, I ask of you to explain this "Circular Argument" to me?
 
B

BuffyLou

Member
#126
Apr 14, 2020
263
15
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#126
biker said:
Explain to me this "Circular Argument," please? I was a rotten human being for many years, did things unthinkable, thought believing in God meant I would be a sissy, ran with people you would think were a nightmare if they showed up on your doorsteps. I was a Pagan, loved wiccan women, did the rituals because we were nekkid and it was an orgy afterwards. I am the person who faced death while screaming at God, "Bring it ON!!!!!

So, I am unfamiliar with this so-called "Circular Argument" you speak about.

As far as Faith and Belief goes, I once worshipped the Devil. Seen him face to face. Did his bidding for him. Without killing anyone, I was a modern day Saul of Taurus. I knew when I chose God WHO the ENEMY was on a personal basis. Trust me when I say, the Adversary is the "Real Deal." So is God!

Please, I ask of you to explain this "Circular Argument" to me?
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The requirement necessary to believe and have faith is to believe and have faith.
 
B

biker

Banned
#127
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
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#127
BuffyLou said:
The requirement necessary to believe and have faith is to believe and have faith.
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Without knowing that it takes a battery, air flow, and fuel to start the engine of your car, do you believe if you get in your vehicle, put the key into the ignition, turn it, that your car will start?

You just believe and have faith it is going to start every time.

That is the very same logic it is in Believing if God is real.
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#128
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
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#128
BuffyLou said:
Whoa I wanna hear more about this
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That’s what the Bible is about if you actually read the words. It’s more like we were created to serve Him. There was some corporate espionage. We were “laid off”. Some were called back to work (the Jews). After too many contract breeches, they were no longer signatory. A new offer was extended including shares in the company (shared inheritance with Christ). The Son owns the company. It was given to Him by the One who started it. He is returning after a worldwide catastrophe to kick out the acting CEO who wants it for himself. In a nutshell that is the story of the Bible.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#129
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
13,729
113
#129
BuffyLou said:
Whoa I wanna hear more about this
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Again, I recommend the work of Dr. Michael Heiser. Search his name on YouTube; there are dozens of videos and podcasts there. :)
 
B

biker

Banned
#130
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
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#130
BuffyLou said:
No. To 'believe' is a positive action. I cannot truthfully say I believe Jesus 'is Who He said He is'.
Click to expand...

I love Ancient History. I love how we can see our medical institutes, our Cultures, our Law design, our Political design, and down to our own households were by following the same pattern of Ancient Civilizations, mainly the Greeks. The greatest gift we have is the Greeks loved to write about everything. Of course, like this thread title, we know the Greeks loved their Mythical gods and goddesses. But were you even aware several Ancient Greek Historians, followers of the Greek Myth, wrote about the "Real life of Jesus?" They even include His miracles, some of His Teachings, even His Death-Burial-Resurrection. That is correct, a couple even wrote about how Jesus factually arose from the dead and was purposefully seen to many (His enemies, His followers, and to those who just observed).
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#131
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
13,729
113
#131
biker said:
Explain to me this "Circular Argument," please? I was a rotten human being for many years, did things unthinkable, thought believing in God meant I would be a sissy, ran with people you would think were a nightmare if they showed up on your doorsteps. I was a Pagan, loved wiccan women, did the rituals because we were nekkid and it was an orgy afterwards. I am the person who faced death while screaming at God, "Bring it ON!!!!!

So, I am unfamiliar with this so-called "Circular Argument" you speak about.

As far as Faith and Belief goes, I once worshipped the Devil. Seen him face to face. Did his bidding for him. Without killing anyone, I was a modern day Saul of Taurus. I knew when I chose God WHO the ENEMY was on a personal basis. Trust me when I say, the Adversary is the "Real Deal." So is God!

Please, I ask of you to explain this "Circular Argument" to me?
Click to expand...
A circular argument is one which uses the premise as proof to support the conclusion. Here's a very simple example:

1. I believe the moon is made of green cheese.
2. Others believe the moon is made of green cheese.
Therefore, the moon is made of green cheese.

In practical terms, it is using the conclusion you already hold to "prove" that conclusion, though often in a roundabout way. Many Christians who have not studied logic or apologetics make this mistake, and get frustrated that the person to whom they are witnessing doesn't just 'roll over and believe'. I have seen many circular arguments on this forum since I learned to spot them.
 
B

BuffyLou

Member
#132
Apr 14, 2020
263
15
18
#132
Dino246 said:
A circular argument is one which uses the premise as proof to support the conclusion. Here's a very simple example:

1. I believe the moon is made of green cheese.
2. Others believe the moon is made of green cheese.
Therefore, the moon is made of green cheese.

In practical terms, it is using the conclusion you already hold to "prove" that conclusion, though often in a roundabout way. Many Christians who have not studied logic or apologetics make this mistake, and get frustrated that the person to whom they are witnessing doesn't just 'roll over and believe'. I have seen many circular arguments on this forum since I learned to spot them.
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Hmm, your example better resembles an Argumentum ad Populum, an appeal to popular belief.
 
B

biker

Banned
#133
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#133
Hahaha yeah, when I was first saved, I would roll into the Church parking lot on my Hog and people not with the church would come in to see what a hippie like me was doing there. By the time the Pastor would ask me to tell my Testimony, those people were already at the altar giving their lives to God. Eventually, as I gave more room to God, my appearance began to soften. But tattoos have a way of telling their own story, especially when most of them are Grim Reapers. Nowadays, these Millennials and Generation xers, they are as dense as a brick and tell you to take a hike "homo." If it wasn't for God, I admit, I would bounce them morons off a brick wall just to see em cry! But I just say, God loves you and you have no idea how He is saving your life this very moment and walk away.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#134
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
13,729
113
#134
BuffyLou said:
Hmm, your example better resembles an Argumentum ad Populum, an appeal to popular belief.
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I see your point; I probably should have looked up an example. Have you studied logic formally or just on your own?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#137
#137
if they were not real it would make little sense to have a command not to worship other gods.
 
B

biker

Banned
#138
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#138
jaybird88 said:
if they were not real it would make little sense to have a command not to worship other gods.
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That is more in a spiritual sense since we can make anything a god. Money, job, vehicle, women, etc.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#139
#139
biker said:
That is more in a spiritual sense since we can make anything a god. Money, job, vehicle, women, etc.
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i dont think men have the power to make gods, only the Most High has that kind of power. money can be an idol but not a god, a god is a self aware being.
 
B

biker

Banned
#140
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
#140
jaybird88 said:
i dont think men have the power to make gods, only the Most High has that kind of power. money can be an idol but not a god, a god is a self aware being.
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Hmmmm, so if I thought to myself, "Self, there must be something bigger than me, something in terms of a god." Therefore, I shall create something out of marble and claim that it is a god. I will worship it, make it the center of my universe, even sacrifice to it. And when others come by and see what I have made, they too can have a god.

Actually, that is how it was done. Not everyone was privileged to the Hebrew God. They created their own gods. It did not have to be a Demon behind the scheme knowing that from the earliest of time, mankind has always sought out something more than himself, greater than himself, a Deity.
 
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