Not By Works

[walknlight]

But you can put me on record as saying you are not likely to hear the real gospel from a real Christian in a pub.

NOT SO!
Family and acquaintances call me the "Buzz KILLER"
Now, your limiting the Gospel OF CHRIST and where it can proclaimed, be heard or who is able to hear.....?

Have you not read:
1Cor 3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused it to grow.
1Cor 3:7 So neither the one who plants counts for anything, nor the one who waters, but God who causes the growth.
1Cor 3:8 The one who plants and the one who waters work as one, but each will receive his reward according to his work.

Preach the Gospel!

Not, how you feel about the Gospel.....

1Tim 6:3 If someone spreads false teachings and does not agree with sound words (that is, those of our Lord Jesus Christ) and with the teaching that accords with godliness,
1Tim 6:4 he is conceited and understands nothing, but has an unhealthy interest in controversies and verbal disputes. This gives rise to envy, dissension, slanders, evil suspicions,
1Tim 6:5 and constant bickering by people corrupted in their minds and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a way of making a profit.
1Tim 6:6 Now godliness combined with contentment brings great profit.

 

[Judges1318]

You have been refuted over and over ... even when you were Ralph.

You are right it does exist in scripture because.... at the point of justification a person is saved! DONE

When you can produce the Words of God that say my believing is me trying to save myself then I'll get on board with your religion.

 

[EleventhHour]

When you can produce the Words of God that say my believing is me trying to save myself then I'll get on board with your religion.

We have all produced the words of God that state salvation is secure.. you do not accept scripture on this point so you are the one in error.

And don't tell me secure/saved as long as you continue to believe.. that is not in scripture either.
Justified >>> Done

 

[Judges1318]

He certainly did attack me and OSAS believers in general and he did more than simply bawl us out. He basically had a meltdown and went on bitter, angry rant which involved statements of condemnation towards me and OSAS believers in general, yet we are the big babies?

It all started on March 18th at 5:28 am when I jokingly asked, "what happened to Dennis the Menace?" (nickname for Judges1318). Prior to that we had not heard from him since March 2nd. Then on March 18th at 8:00 am, he responded with a series of bitter, hateful rants! Personally, I was shocked by his aggressive, personal attack on me and others in the OSAS camp (which up to that time was unusual for him) but his true colors emerged and have continued to shine through ever since.

When I originally asked, "what happened to Dennis the Menace?" I had a feeling he was lurking on Christian Chat and that my post would flush him out and it worked! 2 1/2 hours after I posted that question, he suddenly reappeared. I explained to him that I was merely joking around when I mentioned the name, “Dennis the Menace.” Prior to that, I once jokingly told him that 'Dennis the Menace' should be his avatar name and he even laughed about it, but this time, he became belligerent.

So there was no backbiting scheme of the devil involved here. I was simply joking around and he took it personal and became very angry. His endless, relentless attacks on OSAS believers is really getting ridiculous and is just plain juvenile.

Oh, almost forgot....

If chastising immature believers for backstabbing and provoking others is having a bitter, angry meltdown, then Paul is guilty too.

"15If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. " - Galatians 5:15

"26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. " - Galatians 5:26

Only children think being corrected by someone is that person being wrong and out of line.
I called you out and, just like a child, you think I'm the one in the wrong.
Time to grow up into that which really counts, mmd.
Get off the milk and start eating the food of the mature.

 

[CherieR]

And so the giver of the free flashlight is completely and utterly responsible to make sure he keeps it?

In the 'new' osas, Johnny still has the flashlight even if he tosses it aside, all the while thinking he still has it because it's a flashlight that never fails to shine.

I believe Ezekiel 37:1-14 gives a good picture of salvation.

 

[Judges1318]

We have all produced the words of God that state salvation is secure.. you do not accept scripture on this point so you are the one in error.

And don't tell me secure/saved as long as you continue to believe.. that is not in scripture either.
Justified >>> Done

That's not what I asked you to produce.
Show me the scripture that says my believing is me trying to save myself.

 

[Judges1318]

I believe Ezekiel 37:1-14 gives a good picture of salvation.

I will examine it when I get back.

 

[Judges1318]

you know you have no basis for your anti-biblical, despicable Jesus denying works gospel.

'Believing' is an "anti-biblical, despicable Jesus denying works gospel".
Got it.

 

[posthuman]

Because it illustrates the error of your 'new' osas theology.
You believe that there is NOTHING that can prevent the 'Christian' from being saved when Jesus comes back, not even a return to the bars in unbelief and a trampling on the blood of Christ.

i believe that central to the root cause of this matter is calling things 'conversions' that are not actually conversions.
it is 1 John 2:19 --

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
​

the truth of this passage - the fact of tares among the wheat, of wolves disguised among sheep - cannot be discounted. and John plainly says that such a person who 'returns to unbelief' and 'tramples on the blood' was not a believer, but an imposter.

so we are not talking about the security of the believer. we are talking about the insecurity of the false convert, and we are presenting strawmen if we speak as though one of Christ's sheep can be lost. not one will be lost; He has declared it so.

i believe in my eternally secure salvation in Him, no matter what i may do or think or say. i believe this because it is a genuine supernatural conversion in me. an actual, literal, effective redemption in which God is the one at work, not me; God who is faithful to complete the work in me.
i do not believe in 'osas' because 'osas' is a misnomer and mischaracterization of salvation. it is implicit in the term 'osas' that frivolous, one-time emotional 'decision' made through clever coercive oration and production, and self-imposed behavioral modification are tantamount to supernatural work of God in a person's heart. such 'revivalist' decisions and 'altar calls' are not salvific in my opinion - a strong opinion. salvation is not a mental acquiescence to a persuasive, emotional speech. it is a supernatural work of God in a person's heart.

as such, the supernatural work of God cannot and will not be undone. the cleverness of men and the temporary fickle passions of men and the carnal rites of church-going and recited prayers are not equivalent to the effectual, spiritual, very-much-real working of God in calling His sheep to Himself.

 

[EleventhHour]

'Believing' is an "anti-biblical, despicable Jesus denying works gospel".
Got it.

You twist my words.
And once again you reveal yourself.

 

[posthuman]

i do not believe the sky is blue because i was convinced by someone that it is blue.
i believe the sky is blue because the Lord opened my eyes, and i saw it.

a blind man can be convinced that the sky is blue.
if his eyes are never opened, he may later be convinced the sky is purple.

real salvation is like the opening of the eyes.
the strawman of the 'osas' argument is like a man who remains blind, but has been given knowledge of what it is like to see.
he can act like someone with sight, he can talk like someone with sight, he can even walk like someone with sight.
if he goes back to walking, speaking and acting like a blind man, he has not lost his sight - he never really had any.
all he had was the deceptive appearance of sight. it was temporary and non-existent; an illusion of existence waiting to be revealed as non-existence by the passage of time.

 

[mailmandan]

Oh, almost forgot....

If chastising immature believers for backstabbing and provoking others is having a bitter, angry meltdown, then Paul is guilty too.

"15If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. " - Galatians 5:15

"26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. " - Galatians 5:26

Only children think being corrected by someone is that person being wrong and out of line.
I called you out and, just like a child, you think I'm the one in the wrong.
Time to grow up into that which really counts, mmd.
Get off the milk and start eating the food of the mature.

You need to stop justifying your actions and look in the mirror.

 

[walknlight]

'Only children think being corrected by someone is that person being wrong and out of line.
I called you out and, just like a child, you think I'm the one in the wrong.
Time to grow up into that which really counts, mmd.
Get off the milk and start eating the food of the mature.

I'm offended.

I am a witness to mailmandan fruit and WORKS by the SPIRIT, a true brother in Christ. I have known him long before this board.

He has not wavered from the faith, Yahweh Elohim as my witness.

Stop slinging mud at the brethren.

Its called APOLOGETICS, reasoning with one another according to scripture, in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

You really do not see yourself....

 

[posthuman]

I fell upon that Rock yeah
He's beyond the shadow
Of your doubt an' mine
He's no man's opinion
He is Truth Divine
- DEE​

 

[EleventhHour]

And so the giver of the free flashlight is completely and utterly responsible to make sure he keeps it?

In the 'new' osas, Johnny still has the flashlight even if he tosses it aside, all the while thinking he still has it because it's a flashlight that never fails to shine.

False equivocation

 

[EleventhHour]

My unsaved son, who doesn't want to be saved, and doesn't care at all about the gospel was approached by a drunk in a bar one time who explained to him 'your' gospel. Even my son could see what a joke it was. My son pointed out to him how he was as drunk as he was and the guy said it didn't matter because he could do whatever he wanted and still be saved.

The depths some will travel to slander the body of Christ.

 

[posthuman]

And so the giver of the free flashlight is completely and utterly responsible to make sure he keeps it?

In the 'new' osas, Johnny still has the flashlight even if he tosses it aside, all the while thinking he still has it because it's a flashlight that never fails to shine.

in reality God puts a light inside Billy that shines out of his eyes and mouth and on his hand, and Johnny picks up a flashlight.
in the dark they both look look like they have light.
Johnny's battery runs out.
Billy's light doesn't depend on batteries.

the gift of God isn't a flashlight that needs it batteries replaced.
the gift of God is an inextinguishable blaze shining brighter and brighter until the Daystar Himself appears again

 

[posthuman]

My unsaved son, who doesn't want to be saved, and doesn't care at all about the gospel was approached by a drunk in a bar one time who explained to him 'your' gospel. Even my son could see what a joke it was. My son pointed out to him how he was as drunk as he was and the guy said it didn't matter because he could do whatever he wanted and still be saved.

it is true that the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking.
it is true that all things are lawful for a son of the King, but not all things expedient.
it is true that men judge by appearance, but God searches the heart.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Mental disorder huh?

a mental disorder is think your righteousness will save you, when Paul makes it clear no guts of righteousness we do will ever save us, we are saved by Gods mercy

Yes, the DSM lists Works Salvation and OSAS under the same chapter heading "Looney Tunes Logic".

you conditional salvationists are mocking God and his perfect righteous es and judgment and excusing your sin thinking it is not really all that sinful, like the pharisee, you think you are ok, when the law says your not only not ok, but in peril and Jesus came to save you and you say, that’s ok jesus, I got this.

Once again, OSAS has taken the Biblical principle of unprofitable, reasonable, obligatory (yes, they're called the Ten Commandments, not the Ten Suggestions) service and corrupted it by twisting it into "salvation sinners earn by works"...not realizing that Romans 8:7 is clear that sinners can never be "subject to the law of God" even if they wanted to.

our example here, yeah, he did not have faith in the master, if he did, he would shown the same mercy to this man that his master showed him. what a joke!

Without counterpoint, you claimed the servant didn't have faith in the master's proclamation that he was forgiven even after you saw me make the point that if he didn't have faith, he would have cowered in the corner in unbelief instead of walking out the door to open air freedom.

But, having totally ignored this, one can only speculate that perhaps your reason for stubbornly refusing to concede my point is that you think this is a case of mass delusion, where the master and the others were suddenly overcome with conviction that a guilty man who stole a bazillion dollars was actually innocent to the point that they watched him pinching himself to make sure he wasn't dreaming as he reluctantly strutted out the door to freedom?

 

[posthuman]

Once again, OSAS has taken the Biblical principle of unprofitable, reasonable, obligatory (yes, they're called the Ten Commandments, not the Ten Suggestions) service and corrupted it by twisting it into "salvation sinners earn by works"...not realizing that Romans 8:7 is clear that sinners can never be "subject to the law of God" even if they wanted to.

you are mischaracterizing a statement about the theological, scriptural truth of our justification before God through the grace worked by Christ, calling it wantonness.

no one here is saying "let's go sin all the more because grace abounds"

same strawman has been repeated for over six thousand pages in this very thread.