Not By Works

[VCO]

He's joined the Fruit Inspectors and Cherry Pickers Union, Local 666 View attachment 214345

I can see by your answer YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND A THING, in this post and the last post.

Fruit Inspector, is the job of every TRUE born again Christian:


Matthew 7:20 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.


And we are NOT CHERRY PICKERS, it is YOUR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING.

My guess, this is the PROBLEM:


1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[EleventhHour]

I can see by your answer YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND A THING, in this post and the last post.

Fruit Inspector, is the job of every TRUE born again Christian:


Matthew 7:20 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.


And we are NOT CHERRY PICKERS, it is YOUR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING.

My guess, this is the PROBLEM:


1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

VCO the post was directed to @Judges1318 not you.

 

[Phoneman-777]

"and that life was the light of men"

it's His breath by which you live, move and have your existence. is His breath decaying unto extinction or eternal?

His Breath of Life (Spirit of Life) is eternal...those in which He breathes His Breath are not. When the Creator withdraws His breath, the creature dies, according to Job 34:14, and James 2:26 says the body without that Breath is as dead as faith without works.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Why art thou quoting me and another poster - are you still on one of those party phone lines?

I don't see how this post of yours addresses the bogus idea that Jesus started some sort of investigative judgment in 1844.

Yo would do well to study the OT Sanctuary pattern to see the New Testament application. Jesus is our High Priest and what He does is that which was previously "shadows of things to come".

 

[Phoneman-777]

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6

Men cannot cast anyone into the fires of hell.

Yes, men are not casting men into the Lake of Fire. It's symbolism, like the angels coming to reap the harvest of the Earth is not literal either. Jesus said men cast dead branches into the fire; the interpretation is that God will cast saints who failed to "endure to the end" into the Lake of Fire.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Luther is an interesting case. Certainly he revived a debate, but between his hatred of the jews and desire to throw out books of the Bible there is grounds for questioning if he truly understood grace.

I don't recall Luther professing hatred for Jews; perhaps I missed that? Could it be that it's just a case of harsh, well deserved criticism against the Jews which rejected Jesus? I do know that he was spot on in his understanding of grace, after all he re-discovered that which would become one of the Twin Pillars of the Reformation: salvation by grace through faith.

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes, men are not casting men into the Lake of Fire. It's symbolism, like the angels coming to reap the harvest of the Earth is not literal either. Jesus said men cast dead branches into the fire; the interpretation is that God will cast saints who failed to "endure to the end" into the Lake of Fire.

God will cast saints who failed to "endure to the end" into the Lake of Fire.

Saints are not tossed into the Lake of Fire, that would mean Jesus is going into the Lake of Fire with them.

The "enduring" is clearly a physical endurance during the tribulation.
The are saved from a physical death at that time.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Loss of salvation not even in view.

No mention of the Lake of Fire .... again adding to the text.
No mention that each individual branch refers to people again adding to the text
He made the comparison to men for a reason... He did not state I will throw in the Lake of Fire

He speaking the useful of those branches.. to the vineyard keeper, they are not useful and burned.

Usefulness if the point.
It is about fruit and abiding... what is in us that in not abiding, falls and is burned. By abiding in Him we produce good fruit.
He bears the fruit..

There is only one fate for anyone who ceases to abide in Jesus: spiritual death and a subsequent eternal death. "He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son hath not life".

 

[Bbrdrd]

I don't recall Luther professing hatred for Jews; perhaps I missed that? Could it be that it's just a case of harsh, well deserved criticism against the Jews which rejected Jesus? I do know that he was spot on in his understanding of grace, after all he re-discovered that which would become one of the Twin Pillars of the Reformation: salvation by grace through faith.

He wrote a treatise called "On the Jews and their Lies" in which he urged persecution of the jews. If that's not hatred of jews, I don't know what would qualify.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Saints are not tossed into the Lake of Fire, that would mean Jesus is going into the Lake of Fire with them.

Why? The wages of sin is death, and Jesus paid that penalty long ago, and is alive forevermore.

 

[EleventhHour]

Why? The wages of sin is death, and Jesus paid that penalty long ago, and is alive forevermore.

Jesus lives in His saints via the Holy Spirit.

 

[EleventhHour]

There is only one fate for anyone who ceases to abide in Jesus: spiritual death and a subsequent eternal death. "He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son hath not life".

We do not abide for salvation, that is a done deal, we abide in fellowship and union,

 

[Phoneman-777]

View attachment 214254
So I am assuming by the picture you post that trusting in God is not a really smart thing to do?

To clarify, you asked if a man who starts out trusting the pilot but then later jumps out the plane, did he ever really trust him"? By that picture, it's clear that giving up later has nothing to do with whether or not faith and trust existed in the beginning.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Bull, I am sorry but I am calling you out. because you are outright bearing false witness, and you need to repent. Because your eyes and your mind is closed to what people believe and what people are saying. You are part of the problem my friend, not the solution.

I assure you my eyes are fine, I"m not bearing false witness, am in no need of repentance, and part of the solution, friend. I've defined OSAS by the very meaning of the acronym - once you're saved, nothing (including throwing off the authority of Jesus over you life) can rob you of eternal life.

Eternal life is based on a LIVING FAITH, a LIVING FAITH does not sit idle. IT WORKS. BECAUSE IT IS LIVING (see Heb 11)

Amen, but OSAS claims our ability to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith. For OSAS to agree to anything less is theological suicide.

Its sad you have to come to the point you have to resort to lies and slander of people because you do not like what they believe, Does this help you continue in your own type of faith? Because it should show you how your faith must be weak, so weak you must lie about others in order to convince yoursef your right and they are wrong.

Merely saying a person is wrong about a theological position may not be appealing to the one to whom it's being said, but it's certainly not "slander". No doubt there are some OSAS people who would rather die than sin. Ours is not to judge motive or eternal destiny, but to inspect borne fruit such as doctrine. And demonstrating the why OSAS is inconsistent with Scripture by the Scripture is not "lies", it is truth.

There is no such thing as a licentious gospel. It is just as evil and deadly as the legalistic gospel you hold dear to your heart. They will be just as lost as the legalist if they do not repent.

I said earlier that OSAS resides in the evil Left Ditch of License that is across the evil Right Ditch of Legalism, and I strive to walk the centerline of the Path of the Just.

 

[Phoneman-777]

We do not abide for salvation, that is a done deal, we abide in fellowship and union,

Is the consequence of a branch failing to abide in its vine limited to disunion and disfellowship, or does it die?

 

[Phoneman-777]

I guess this rules out any death bed salvations. If you’re on your death bed, you cannot call upon the Lord and be saved. That’s a sad outlook.

Well, that's why the Bible includes one - but only one - deathbed confession: So that none lose hope, but also so that none dare presume.

 

[posthuman]

His Breath of Life (Spirit of Life) is eternal...those in which He breathes His Breath are not. When the Creator withdraws His breath, the creature dies, according to Job 34:14, and James 2:26 says the body without that Breath is as dead as faith without works.

you're only talking about the body of flesh.

do you think you are a body of flesh?
you don't think you're more than that?
you are aware that the Christian worldview involves personhood being a soul, not a body of flesh, right?

He breathed into the body and the man became a living soul, yes?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Just me, you and the self righteous garbage you pedal is no threat to me. I’m eternally secured in Jesus Christ; not because I’m obedient, but because He was obedient.

There's nothing self righteous about Biblically defined Christian obligation that OSAS so despises for two reasons: it's reasonable service, and without Jesus it's impossible to render - even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

 

[posthuman]

You've cherry picked this, the context is that some among them were saying there is no resurrection:

(1 Cor 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?)

Denying the resurrection is a profound doctrinal error, which is why Paul is exhorting them to follow the word that he preached to them.

Somewhat like you and the doctrine you profess.

so these among that congregation who rejected resurrection never believed in the gospel at all - because the gospel is a gospel of resurrection?

 

[posthuman]

I don't recall Luther professing hatred for Jews; perhaps I missed that? Could it be that it's just a case of harsh, well deserved criticism against the Jews which rejected Jesus? I do know that he was spot on in his understanding of grace, after all he re-discovered that which would become one of the Twin Pillars of the Reformation: salvation by grace through faith.

have a read:


Martin Luther - "On the Jews and Their Lies" (PDF link)