Not By Works

[gb9]

Paul most certainly talked about the law in sections, not as a whole.

"31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." - Romans 3:31

"Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!" - Galatians 4:9-10

This demonstrates a very clear division of the law taught by Paul.


I think the law of Christ is simply the law of Moses minus the things that Christ himself, being a righteous man, did not need to do in the law of Moses when He walked the earth.
Take out things like sacrifices, ceremonies and festivals, etc. and you essentially have what Paul calls the law of Christ.

so, now you are a judeaizer teaching lordship salvation.


that is a good one-

2 bogus religious that push fear and control and being judgemental.

fits you like a t.

 

[Judges1318]

what i am saying is, no surprise Leviticus says, love. but it isn't because i read Leviticus and am compelled by the regulation that i have love. i love because He loves me, first. it is Christ in me saying, 'love' -- He is the compulsion, not the letter. because that letter was written to speak of Him, in the very first place: it is its primary purpose. now having gained knowledge of Him it's not through being commanded by Leviticus but through being led by the Spirit.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" - 2 Timothy 3:16

Not only is all scripture useful for training in righteousness, but when Paul penned this the only scripture that existed was the law of Moses. And he says it's useful for "teaching, rebuking, correcting and "training in righteousness".

It's absurd to think the New Testament can instruct us to 'love others' and it not be the same as the law instructing us to 'love others'. How is a command being written down in the Law of Moses somehow 'law' (in every negative connotation of the word), yet it's not 'law' when it's written in the New Testament? Whether in the Law of Moses, or the pages of our New Testaments, it's the law nonetheless.

 

[posthuman]

the only way you're going to be able to make any other argument is by trying to delete jots and erase tittles.

as you have begun to try to do even as i wrote this:

As I'm showing, the Bible very plainly shows us that we are to subject ourselves to "love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18), but not to things like 'they must bring as their offering for the sin they committed a female goat without defect" (Leviticus 4:28).

That's a clear division of the law and distinction of commandments in this New Covenant.

you're deleting jots and tittles.
you're saying you can break part of the law and not be a lawbreaker as long as you keep some other part of the law.
that's untenable.

 

[Judges1318]

of course it is; it is God's argument. it is Romans 6, 7 & 8

this is the way we have become alive to God, through the death of Christ.
as i said, it's not by the Law having been edited and partially deleted. not one jot or tittle passed away.
it's by being removed from its jurisdiction.

the only way you're going to be able to make any other argument is by trying to delete jots and erase tittles.

Jesus said the only things that would allow a jot or tittle to pass from the law was if either the fulfillment occurs or heaven and earth pass away. Well, we know the fulfillment has occurred. How? Because much, much more than just a jot or tittle has passed away from the law.

Christ's fulfillment of all things allows the passing of things from the law--animal sacrifice for sin, etc. What remains is the debt of law to 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

 

[Judges1318]

you're deleting jots and tittles.
you're saying you can break part of the law and not be a lawbreaker as long as you keep some other part of the law.
that's untenable.

I no longer have to keep laws of animal sacrifice, but I do have to keep the part about 'loving your neighbor as yourself'. That's a division of law. And of course, I do that through the new way of the Spirit, not in the old way of the powerlessness of those written words alone.

 

[Judges1318]

you're deleting jots and tittles.

Yes, sir.
Christ's fulfillment allows the people of God to do that.
No reason to retain a jot or tittle that does not need to be retained because of what Christ did on the cross.

"not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." - Matthew 5:18

We know this accomplishment has occurred.
We don't have to sacrifice animals anymore.

 

[azamzimtoti]

I think the law of Christ is simply the law of Moses minus the things that Christ himself, being a righteous man, did not need to do in the law of Moses when He walked the earth.
Take out things like sacrifices, ceremonies and festivals, etc. and you essentially have what Paul calls the law of Christ.

Wow, this is so far off the mark it's unbelievable. And the source of your error.

As Post said quoting Paul - those in Christ are dead to the Law, free and alive in the international waters of grace.

You are trying to turn the Law which brought death into a Law that brings life through some sort of Christian OsMoses.

 

[posthuman]

but not to things like 'they must bring as their offering for the sin they committed a female goat without defect" (Leviticus 4:28).

my offering for sin has already been made, and as such, the me that is appointed to life is sanctified forever.
if i stumble in my flesh it is no longer i, but sin dwelling in me.
it is sin dwelling in my flesh that stands guilty, and sin has no goat without defect - therefore sin is condemned, destined for destruction: He will complete the work, and when i enter, none of those things will be found in me; they are burned away, leaving not even a smell of fire behind.

 

[posthuman]

Yes, sir.
Christ's fulfillment allows the people of God to do that.
No reason to retain a jot or tittle that does not need to be retained because of what Christ did on the cross.

"not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." - Matthew 5:18

We know this accomplishment has occurred.
We don't have to sacrifice animals anymore.

how much of your copy of the Bible has black-marker redactions?




can i recommend you try a highlighter

 

[Judges1318]

@posthuman

I'll be back later.

 

[posthuman]

This 'new way' of the Spirit upholds, not nullifies, the law.

deleting jots and tittles = nullifying jots and tittles.

in us the tzitzit and the burnt offerings and the shewbread and the taking of an egg but not the mother bird are all upheld.

 

[posthuman]

@posthuman

I'll be back later.

me too; let's go out into the sunshine for now

 

[Lightskin]

I am sorry you see my post as a debate . You seemed to be asking questions of people on here so i gave my thoughts but suggested rather than seeking answers to this on here, to seek answers from the Holy Spirit direct so you don't need to debate with human.

So my post was not a debate. not asking for yours or others opinions. But you immediately attacked me for making a suggestion. All good, I have said what needed to be said, what you do or don't do is up to you once I have done what was laid on my heart to do.

I’m sorry you felt I was attacking you because I wasn’t doing so. In fact, I began my post with the following words:

“I appreciate you taking the time to share as you did.”

God bless you.

 

[Lightskin]

Only those with a good and noble heart can begin to even think that to be true of themselves:

"15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop." - Luke 8:15

Good and noble soil retains the Word, and through that perseverance brings it to fruition. But in the not so good soil the danger of the Word not being retained exists:

"13Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." - Luke 8:13

Once saved always saved is only true for those with a good and noble heart who retain the word. It's not true for the believer who does not have the Word firmly and deeply established in his heart. I'm just going by what Jesus said, not by what man says.

Works salvation spoken by someone who proclaims he doesn’t espouse works salvation.

 

[Bbrdrd]

You must have missed the rest of the book.....To enjoy to fruits of one's labor is indeed from the HAND OF GOD according to Solomon!!

I didn't miss the rest of the book, that quote was meant to point out those who know the gospel but don't enjoy it.

 

[Bbrdrd]

the law is one law, under all of it, or under none of it.

we're not under the Moses, at all - and the law of the covenant made at Sinai, at Horeb, is not something you can break apart and say, we keep this part, but not that part. break it in any way, and your'e guilty of all. no one in the Bible talks about the Law as tho it's in sections you can separate from each other -- that's a purely human invention coming much later by wolves who want to subject you to it.

we are not under the law at all, because we have died, and the law has no authority over the dead.
we were not made free by having the law shattered into pieces and a few of them landing on us while others did not.
we were made free by being completely removed from the jurisdiction of the Law.
we swim in international waters, my friend.

the objection made is, well you're lawless then.

i'm not Belgian. Belgium has laws, some of them good -- like 'do not murder'
just because i'm not under Belgian law doesn't mean i approve murder.

i am not under the Law, but not lawless - i am under the law of Christ.
i'm not under the 10 commandments any more than i am under the law of tzitzit. this doesn't mean i have no ethos or no remembrance. it means i am the servant of One greater than the Law.

Yes, absolutely. We are not under the law in any sense. My contention isn't that our obedience should come from the law, but the question is whether the law was given because it is righteous and just or simply in order to break us down. I contend that we can still see the heart of God at play in the law and though we are not beholden to it understanding the reason God gave certain laws is a healthy area of exploration.

 

[Judges1318]

of course it is; it is God's argument. it is Romans 6, 7 & 8

The argument itself was God's argument, your explanation of it needed a bit of an adjustment, which is what I did.

 

[Judges1318]

so, now you are a judeaizer teaching lordship salvation.


that is a good one-

2 bogus religious that push fear and control and being judgemental.

fits you like a t.

You don't read and comprehend very well.

 

[Judges1318]

Works salvation spoken by someone who proclaims he doesn’t espouse works salvation.

And you really have an ordination?
Really?

 

[Judges1318]

me too; let's go out into the sunshine for now

Yes.
I took the day off to get some stuff done around the house.
Talk to you later today.