Not By Works
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If it were from God's perspective, than sure. The issue is we only have conversion experiences many of which look the same and some who appear thoroughly convinced and changed one minute the next are rejecting Christ. Exactly when, where, and how salvation occurs isn't something we can perceive. But part of the issue, it seems to me, are unsaved people clinging to a false hope rather than facing the judgment of God. They hear the need for righteousness and suddenly there's a threat to their view of salvation. Those who God foreknew will be saved, but knowing that you are one of those is only something you can partially put your trust in. Otherwise OSAS does nothing but give people who need to hear the true gospel false hope.
when someone told you that no one who isn't living in constant fear of being abandoned by Him knows Him or does what pleases Him, what about that did you find plausible? 
However, a man who claims that he loves his wife while actively cheating on her and doing NOTHING to get help to stop only serves to prove that he is a liar, right or wrong?
YET ANOTHER MYTH ABOUT OUR OSAS BELIEFS.
Because you are new here, I will answer your accusation.
We BELIEVE that OBEDIENCE, NEVER HAS BEEN PART SALVATION.
OBEDIENCE is CLEARLY Part of AGAPE LOVE the same kind of GOD's LOVE that the HOLY SPIRIT poured into our Heart, which is the Human Spirit when we were Born Again, Rom. 5:5.
These two verses make it clear that Obedience is PART of Agape LOVE:
John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me {That is the Agape Love that GOD poured into our hearts/human spirit. Rom. 5:5.},
you will keep My commands. {That is I want To LOVE HIM with SINCERE Agape Love, so it is not a burden.}
1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,
{OBEDIENCE is not BURDEN, only when the deeds are motivated by Agape Love. Obedience NEVER HAS BEE PART OF SALVATION.}
We do we believe that OBEDIENCE never has bee Part of Salvation, it is because SALVATION took place LONG BEFORE YOU WERE BORN in the flesh. HE SAID SO. Far to many false teachers think Salvation and Sanctification are the same thing, and that leads to multiple errors in Translation. We literally belief this VERSE was inspired by GOD HIMSELF:
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Ephesians 4:30 (NKJV)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God,
by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
{There is a major OSAS VERSE!}
Ephesians 1:13-14 (HCSB)
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.
ALL THESE VERSES WE BELIEVE LITERALLY.
2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” {BEFORE TIME BEGAN} and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” {AND WRITES OUR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH.}
John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
While you may not cast it as such, the manner that OSAS is presented paints the picture that obedience is not required. And like many doctrine of men verses aplenty are brought out as proof texts but actual discussion of the Scripture is scant. It's shotgun theology, and what you're presenting here goes deeper than a simple declaration of security. There are far too many threads in your post for me to pull on any one, but it's ringing of typical reformed distortion of God's justice into a farce.
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You.... are serious?😯
Oh goodness phoneman...
The context is clear, the woman was caught in adultery, guilty.
Brought before Jesus, and He at no point condemned her for that. Not because she said "sorry" for what she just did and like He gave her another chance, but IN REALITY because He is her Lord....
If your father caught you up past your bed time, then told you to go to bed and don't do that again, it is not a condition to remain in the family.🤦♂️
It is proper instruction from a loving Father.
Jesus wasn't giving a condition for salvation but proper instruction for a clean walk and most definitely referring to the specific sin she was just brought before Him for. (though the lovely advice applies to all sin obviously)
Oh goodness phoneman...
The context is clear, the woman was caught in adultery, guilty.
Brought before Jesus, and He at no point condemned her for that. Not because she said "sorry" for what she just did and like He gave her another chance, but IN REALITY because He is her Lord....
If your father caught you up past your bed time, then told you to go to bed and don't do that again, it is not a condition to remain in the family.🤦♂️
It is proper instruction from a loving Father.
Jesus wasn't giving a condition for salvation but proper instruction for a clean walk and most definitely referring to the specific sin she was just brought before Him for. (though the lovely advice applies to all sin obviously)
We receive and stay in God's preserving power through our believing.
If we stop believing then we no longer have God's preserving power:
"5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." - 1 Peter 1:5
Take the 'through faith' part out of the above verse and you no longer have the shield of God's power for salvation.
If we stop believing then we no longer have God's preserving power:
"5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." - 1 Peter 1:5
Take the 'through faith' part out of the above verse and you no longer have the shield of God's power for salvation.
No, I never said that.
What I said was Paul made it clear to them that they will lose it because they have made Jesus of no effect to them in justification by going back to the law. The simple fact that God is making his plea to them through Paul to come back to faith in Jesus for justification shows us God did not turn them over to their unbelief yet. But they will definitely lose their salvation if they refuse all of God's attempts to bring them back to justification through faith.
What I said was Paul made it clear to them that they will lose it because they have made Jesus of no effect to them in justification by going back to the law. The simple fact that God is making his plea to them through Paul to come back to faith in Jesus for justification shows us God did not turn them over to their unbelief yet. But they will definitely lose their salvation if they refuse all of God's attempts to bring them back to justification through faith.
I'm not seeing the words "stop believing" or "no longer" here. That's your extra added commentary and pet doctrine. Believers are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Take the 'through faith' part out of the above verse and you were never kept by the power of God for salvation. Either we have faith and are saved and we are kept by the power of God or else we don't and are not and never were.
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You sure made it sound like the Galatians lost their salvation in these posts below.
A "professing" believer "permanently" going back to the law for justification would prove that their faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start, yet genuine believers (especially babes in Christ who are Jewish) can get sidetracked by legalistic teachers and temporarily stumble. Those who end up not being glorified in the end were never justified. (Romans 8:30)
It sounds like you are back peddling from your other two posts, but at least you admit now that it wasn't a done deal that they lost their salvation. If they are truly born again, then God will preserve them (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) and their faith will ultimately not fail. The apostle Peter "fell away" at the time of Jesus' arrest and denied Christ 3 times, but his faith did not fail. Philippians 1:6 - being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.
A "professing" believer "permanently" going back to the law for justification would prove that their faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start, yet genuine believers (especially babes in Christ who are Jewish) can get sidetracked by legalistic teachers and temporarily stumble. Those who end up not being glorified in the end were never justified. (Romans 8:30)
It sounds like you are back peddling from your other two posts, but at least you admit now that it wasn't a done deal that they lost their salvation. If they are truly born again, then God will preserve them (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) and their faith will ultimately not fail. The apostle Peter "fell away" at the time of Jesus' arrest and denied Christ 3 times, but his faith did not fail. Philippians 1:6 - being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.
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