Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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The warnings are not meaningless and I did not say God “makes” people believe. Apparently it’s you who doesn’t listen. I said God “draws and enables,” yet we still choose to believe. Babes in Christ can get sidetracked and even the apostle Peter had a weak moment and denied Christ 3 times, yet the end result was not a loss of salvation.
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Thanks for your thoughts. Please allow me to comment on what is a commonly misunderstood verse to which you are referring - 1 John 8-10 - about people saying they have no sin.
This has to do with something totally different. All throughout the ages, Satan has blinded men into believing that he is god and in him lies his own salvation...and this idea is found alive and well in Luciferian secret societies and both Christian/non-Christian orgs...but ALSO is the occult idea that is widespread in the New Age Movement that THERE IS NO SIN, as claimed by J. Z. Knight, Helen Schucman, Benjamin Creme, etc., and that we cannot be guilty of something that is a "myth".
Even President Donald Trump claimed in the beginning this very thing...that he didn't have any sin and thus didn't need to repent of any. So, John's rebuke against those who claim to be without sin are not the saints, but those who need to become saints.
This has to do with something totally different. All throughout the ages, Satan has blinded men into believing that he is god and in him lies his own salvation...and this idea is found alive and well in Luciferian secret societies and both Christian/non-Christian orgs...but ALSO is the occult idea that is widespread in the New Age Movement that THERE IS NO SIN, as claimed by J. Z. Knight, Helen Schucman, Benjamin Creme, etc., and that we cannot be guilty of something that is a "myth".
Even President Donald Trump claimed in the beginning this very thing...that he didn't have any sin and thus didn't need to repent of any. So, John's rebuke against those who claim to be without sin are not the saints, but those who need to become saints.
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E
WOW... seriously
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
John specifically uses "we" including himself.
Are you stating John needed salvation?
Btw...... you have many posts to get caught up on sir... I am still waiting. Thank you so much in advance!
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I had to put Phoneman-777, on my IGNORE LIST, because of these VERSES:
Titus 3:10-11 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
I would like to encourage all to do that likewise, we have to monitor him, so he will not lead new comer's astray.
You can do that periodically by clicking on Show ignored content, and just turn the page and he GOES BACK ON IGNORE.
I consider his LIES about OSAS Theology, to be a Personal Attack on all of us who Believe in OSAS.
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Sadly, Mr. VCO I have too much time on my hands these days, we have a lot of rain keeping inside beyond the normal self sheltering.... so I figure might as well fight the good fight.
I love working outside, but I guess I could go find a wall to paint!
All the walls are OSAS in my house, otherwise they get torn down and rebuilt!!
But I hear you, it is an exercise in frustration!!
I love working outside, but I guess I could go find a wall to paint!
All the walls are OSAS in my house, otherwise they get torn down and rebuilt!!
But I hear you, it is an exercise in frustration!!
What good is that if OSAS insists on teaching that a saint can't discard salvation and turn back to destruction, though Hebrews 10:38-39 KJV provides for that very thing:
10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
There is no Spiritual Switzerland. These saints were moving away from perdition toward God, but then drew back to the displeasure of God.
Q. Who alone can claim the promises of God - those who please Him or bring displeasure?
A. "And we know we receive the things of God because we...do those things which are pleasing in His sight." 1 John 3:22 KJV.
10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
There is no Spiritual Switzerland. These saints were moving away from perdition toward God, but then drew back to the displeasure of God.
Q. Who alone can claim the promises of God - those who please Him or bring displeasure?
A. "And we know we receive the things of God because we...do those things which are pleasing in His sight." 1 John 3:22 KJV.
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It seems that some folks would ignore another member of the body of Christ and become one who smells, but cannot see. Or one who can see, but cannot smell. By dismissing one another and ignoring one another we are bitting and consuming one another. The chief reason is because of those who work harder to interpret scripture rather than simply obeying them.
Though I disagree with the OSAS crowd, I do glean some useful fruit from them. And I strive to continue to love them. But it’s saddening how some on the OSAS side talk to others with such hateful contempt. Truly grieving to my spirit. Imagine how this must grieve the Holy Spirit.
Though I disagree with the OSAS crowd, I do glean some useful fruit from them. And I strive to continue to love them. But it’s saddening how some on the OSAS side talk to others with such hateful contempt. Truly grieving to my spirit. Imagine how this must grieve the Holy Spirit.
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Sadly, Mr. VCO I have too much time on my hands these days, we have a lot of rain keeping inside beyond the normal self sheltering.... so I figure might as well fight the good fight.
I love working outside, but I guess I could go find a wall to paint!
All the walls are OSAS in my house, otherwise they get torn down and rebuilt!!
But I hear you, it is an exercise in frustration!!
I love working outside, but I guess I could go find a wall to paint!
All the walls are OSAS in my house, otherwise they get torn down and rebuilt!!
But I hear you, it is an exercise in frustration!!
You could get one of these:
Total Body Umbrella.
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E
You know it is really helpful to speak other languages sometimes.
In Mediterranean culture the word "perdition" does not always mean hell as in the actual place.
So once again you have missed the nuance of the expressive language of this author.
As well the "saving of the soul" is not a reference to being justified... that is already a done deal.
Scripture can only be properly understood within the OSAS lens because that is the TRUTH.
And yet somehow we lose this capacity to choose to believe after we are saved.
I mean if you don't consider the case of the Galatians when saying that.
But somehow somewhere along the line their choice to believe becomes not being able to choose anymore, yet you say they can and do stop believing even if for a while.
Peter got scared for his own skin, that's for sure, but what he did NOT do was deny Christ in unbelief.
Besides, what argument are you trying to make since you insist true believers can't shrink back to unbelief?
I mean if you don't consider the case of the Galatians when saying that.
But somehow somewhere along the line their choice to believe becomes not being able to choose anymore, yet you say they can and do stop believing even if for a while.
Peter got scared for his own skin, that's for sure, but what he did NOT do was deny Christ in unbelief.
Besides, what argument are you trying to make since you insist true believers can't shrink back to unbelief?