Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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There is no Hateful Contempt in my heart, just frustration that they will not thoroughly read my posts, just a skimming over it; and the VICIOUS LIES from your side of the fence about what OSAS THEOLOGY supposedly teaches; is beyond belief. The lies are so CONSISTENT, that they have to be coming from your sides pulpits. I do not mind if you all can quote our OSAS Theology correctly, and then just say, that is not what I believe, because of this or that. We all can just agree, to disagree and go on with our Christian lives.
But that is not what you do, you will:
SAY "OSAS, believes they can sin all you want," - - - NOT WHAT WE TEACH, so it is a LIE.
Or say "What good is that if OSAS insists on teaching that a saint can't discard salvation" - - - NOT WHAT WE TEACH, so it is a LIE.
Or say "Your old school OSAS is a useless, impractical, over-thought, Spiritless theology." - - - NOT WHAT WE TEACH, so it is a LIE.
Or say "OSAS has blinded so many to such plain, elementary truths." - - - Yet another LIE about OSAS Theology.
Or say "seeing that OSAS is of the devil," - - - Yet another LIE about OSAS Theology.
Or say "Well, when you're OSAS, it's only big sins like mass murder or voting Conservative that prove you were "never saved"- N.W.W.T. LIE.
Or say "OSAS teaches I can keep on making wrong choices and still go to heaven," - - - NOT WHAT WE TEACH, so it is a LIE.
Or say "while these OSAS folks march right in along with the rest of the saints" - - - NOT WHAT WE TEACH, so it is a LIE.
Or say "OSAS means by name! "Once I'm saved, I'm free from the consequences of any sinful choices I make thereafter." - Another LIE!
Or say "OSAS makes grace a disgrace." - - - Yet another UNEDUCATED LIE about OSAS Theology, NOT WHAT WE TEACH, A TOTAL LIE!
ETC., ETC., ETC., ETC., ETC.
Shall I go on!
It is a total disregard or IGNORANCE of what OSAS BELIEFS ARE, while making up what amounts to PURE LIES about our beliefs based on suspicions, imaginations, and uneducated misinformation, - - - AND ALMOST NEVER ASKING US DIRECTLY WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE ? ? ? And some of those FALSE IDEAS ABOUT OSAS BELIEFS, have to have been taught from Armenian Pulpits.
So these FALSE IDEAS ABOUT OSAS, get passed around Armenian Congregations, without ANYBODY ASKING US about our BELIEFS.
E
EleventhHour
Guest
The seed, that cannot sin, is Christ Jesus within the believer.
And no he is not schizo...I think that is far more offensive than me telling you to stick to the point ...by the way.
Micaiah-imla
SEE WHAT I MEAN, they cannot resist to REPEAT what others of their kind have said: #131,196
Is is any wonder what SOME of the OSAS Believers are soured on the views of NON-OSAS critics, of which the VAST MAJORITY ARE LIES about our Beliefs.
SEE WHAT I MEAN, they cannot resist to REPEAT what others of their kind have said: #131,196
Is is any wonder what SOME of the OSAS Believers are soured on the views of NON-OSAS critics, of which the VAST MAJORITY ARE LIES about our Beliefs.
Wait, sentiments which encourage resisting temptation and overcoming sin are "weak and powerless"? What does that make those sentiments which encourage defeatism, trusting in God not changing us but only His opinion of the sin that remains in us, and criticizing anyone that suggests otherwise --- "more than conquerorism"?
You can say that again. Anyone who denies that the Unmerciful Servant wound up condemned to suffer the same penalty for which he had previously been forgiven is exactly the kind of folks Peter was referring to when he spoke of the wresting the Scriptures unto their own destruction.
Well, what's wrong with focusing on being obedient? James says not only are we supposed to, but we're blessed in doing so:
And some people are so focused on sin they do not want to recognize grace..... as though the cross is of no effect!
For by grace are ye saved (done) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
James 1:25 -- "But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed."
He also criticizes those who are indifferent to their sin in James 1:22-24...which perfectly characterizes the OSAS crowd.
I'm not calling the Gospel seductive. But the idea that I can obtain by the dead faith of OSAS that which the Bible says can be obtained only by living faith - eternal life - is most certainly seductive.
The Bible warns us of "smooth sayings" that would deceive folks and what could be more smooth a saying than to tell people that once you accept Jesus into your heart, everything you think, say, and do thereafter is inconsequential?
what's dead about a secure hope and a reason for joy that casts out fear?
unassuageable doubt & anxious insecurity = life??
It's called demonstrating absurdity by being absurd, to borrow a phrase from Rush Limbaugh.
It's absurd for you to argue that John declares the saints do sin (1 John 1:8 KJV) and that the saints never sin (1 John 3:9 KJV), right or wrong? You've heard my explanation - that the "we" in "if we say we have no sin" refers not to the saints, but to "we" of the human family that preach the New Age doctrine that sin is a myth. Therefore, John is free to declare later that a saint "does not sin, for His seed remaineth in" him.
I'm still waiting for you to explain the position you hold that John says the saints do and do not sin, and I'm sure it'll be extremely interesting
it is because of an unshakable faith in the faithfulness of my Saviour and the efficacy of His work that i can trust Him completely.
this makes doing what is right, wisdom. it is in gratitude to Him that i revere and love Him, and in reverence and love that i seek wisdom continually: which is, to walk in righteousness and light.
that's not 'dead faith' -- it is a living faith, because it is faith in the faithfulness of THE LIFE to complete what He has begun in me.
maybe you've never actually met a Christian before?
welcome to CC. please alert me if you have any math questions
Secure hope in what? Presumptuously claiming the promises of God while insisting the practice of doing that which displeases Him is inconsequential?
Since John says only those who do "those things which are pleasing in His sight" are able to receive the promises of God (1 John 3:22 KJV), the presumption of OSAS leaves it's believers bound to Jesus not with cords of love, but with ropes of sand.
have a look at the tense of the Greek verb in this verse.
it is expressing an ongoing, continuous action. it is the difference between having an occasional drink and being a drunkard ((right thread?)).
if i had to guess, this particular dyad of verses has been addressed on at least 100 separate occasions in this thread. the Bible does not oppose itself.
God was manifest in the flesh and died for me, a sinner, so that i may know Him, and knowing Him, have life.
what's your hope in?
it pleases Him that i put my trust in Him, not in my sword or bow, not in the strength of my thigh, not in my own understanding.
it pleases Him that i believe.
it pleases Him that in every circumstance, i give thanks.
it pleases Him that i humble myself before Him, that i cherish justice, and love mercy.
do you consider those things 'dead' ?
It doesn't seem to go against Biblical teachings so much as it takes some too far. We can have security in our salvation because it relies not on what we do but who we are. Yet OSAS takes the security we have in Christ a step further and insists that the mere act of placing your faith in Christ for a single moment is enough for salvation, rather than recognizing that it is a life of the obedience of faith. There is ample evidence that those who are saved have no reason to fear for their salvation because Christ is the author and perfecter of the faith that is justifying us. It is a past, present, and future reality yet some will begin to walk in the way and will fall away. Still, the solution is not to argue and dispute but to encourage those who are walking after the faith to continue walking after the faith, to run the race as if to win a prize. Focus on Jesus and you'll be alright.
So, when Jesus said, "Go and sin no more" He really meant "Go and cut down on your sinning"?have a look at the tense of the Greek verb in this verse.
it is expressing an ongoing, continuous action. it is the difference between having an occasional drink and being a drunkard ((right thread?)).
if i had to guess, this particular dyad of verses has been addressed on at least 100 separate occasions in this thread. the Bible does not oppose itself.
for a moment repeating some magic words at the close of a revival meeting while the lights are dimmed and sentimental music is playing isn't what i call 'placing your faith in Christ'
no one knows Him except those He chooses to reveal Himself to. John 6.
conversion is a supernatural event. it isn't something that has zero effect on a person.
IMO a big stumbling block in this discussion is mischaracterizing what salvation is. the saints persevere because God Almighty has literally done something to us, changing our hearts. this is not equivalent to a one-time experience of being emotionally manipulated into making a 'decision' by a silver-tongued persuasive orator.
in that many people have been the false impression they have salvation on account of answering an 'altar call' or filling their name out on a card etc, yes, i agree. but real salvation is salvation that is free & effectual, and it isn't something contingent on my ability to accomplish, but God's own. that is why it is faith: it is believing that He is both willing and able. if it were of works, then faith is void. Romans 4:14