Are Women Not Allowed to Preach in Every Case?

[CS1]

It is situational.

Let’s compare scripture with scripture.

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head (1 Corinthians 11:5).

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak...for it is a shame for women to speak in the church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).

So with knowledge of the fact that women are to be silent in the churches, and not even permitted to ask questions in the church, we can now understand that the praying and prophesying of the women is to take place outside the church.

We can agree that Paul did not say that any woman praying or prophesying IN THE CHURCH, can’t we?

I disagree ,
because the context of the unit chapters from 11 thru 14 is the church setting or when they come together, You do know that they had no official church? it was christians gathering LOL. There was no organized church groups like baptist.

Chapter 14 you do know was not how the letter was written right? there were no verses they were had as was chapters. IF you read chapter 1 you will see who the letter was too the church of:

1cor 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are [a]sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:.

And if you read chapter 11 the context does not end there until the end of Chapter 14.

this is why you see contextual parallel and repeated phrases Paul used to drive many point home. example

Spiritual gifts chapter 1:4-9, 1cor 12 thur 14

Spiritual wisdom Chapter 2

christian conduct chapters 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8

Marriage chapter 7

Christian serving to others chapter 9
christian conduct and correction Not replacement chapter 10,11

Spiritual gifts and operation of them 12, 13, and 14


Chapter 15 out witnesses and testimony of the risen Lord

chapter 16 final word of encouragement

 

[cv5]

Actually, that may be a bit of a grey area as Paul said that he doesn't permit women to speak in church. It doesn't say that God does not permit it. Big difference. I believe that what Paul said regarding this was his own personal opinion based on the current traditions at that time and culture. There are examples in the bible where women had positions of authority. It is most definitely not crystal clear, that is where wisdom and discernment come into play.

Nonsense. Paul was commissioned to settle Church doctrine once and for all by revelation from Jesus DIRECTLY. Pauls very words are inspired by the Holy Spirit and in fact ARE Scripture.

 

[Diakonos]

Actually, that may be a bit of a grey area as Paul said that he doesn't permit women to speak in church. It doesn't say that God does not permit it. Big difference. I believe that what Paul said regarding this was his own personal opinion based on the current traditions at that time and culture. There are examples in the bible where women had positions of authority. It is most definitely not crystal clear, that is where wisdom and discernment come into play.

"Therefore beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction"
-2 Corinthians 3:15-16

The Apostle Peter validated the divine inspiration of all of Paul's letters.
If you disagree, we have no common ground until you read what the Bible says about your opinion

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Right... because every woman in the church has her own husband.

Please think through your next post before you click "Post reply".

Yea there is a reason for that. Either way it doesn't change the point one bit. The men of God are very crystal clear about this matter; it is a shame to let women try to lead men. A prophet predicted them correctly in the name of God when he said that "those that lead you cause you to go astray, children are their oppressors and women rule over them."

 

[Kolistus]

Why are you mocking these Bible verses?

 

[Kolistus]

Well, I bet they are truly relieved that you are giving them a pass........... As for 1 Timothy, being married IS NOT a requirement, nor does Paul state that. He simply understands that the majority of adult men at that time were married. As well, he ALSO said men should NOT marry didn't he? And many people completely misunderstand the writings of the Apostle Paul.

Briefly, he wrote in two styles.........thus sayeth the Lord and I would rather that, it would be better that. Thus sayeth the Lord means just that. It is a commandment, and not to be argued. I would rather that, it would be better that was when Paul was expressing his PERSONAL beliefs on the best way to live a Christian life. It WAS NOT a commandment from God!

When reading his Epistles, it is extremely necessary to recognize which style he is writing in BEFORE one decides to use what he writes to establish REQUIREMENTS for the Church.

1 Corinthians 14:36
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Chapter 14 you do know was not how the letter was written right? there were no verses they were had as was chapters. IF you read chapter 1 you will see who the letter was too the church of:

There is no need to dote about questions and strifes of words over this plain text:

Let your women keep silence in the church. It is not permitted unto them to speak.

This is the word of God and it is truth.

The scripture tells us that those who resist the truth have corrupt minds and that they are reprobate concerning the faith (2 Timothy 3:8).

But I have fully known Paul’s doctrine (2 Timothy 3:10). And it is clear.

We are indeed in perilous times, for men have become boasters, proud, unholy, fierce, despisers of those who are good, heady, highminded. And of this sort have crept into houses, and lead away captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. They withstand the word of God and resist the truth (2 Timothy 3:1-8).

Let us take heed to the word of God and not become like unto those who resist the truth.

This saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her. And she hath changed my judgements into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgements and my statutes, they have not walked therein (Ezekiel 5:5-6).

Indeed, immediately after writing that women are to keep silent in the churches, Paul wrote that the things that he writes unto you are the commandments of the Lord. And the Lord himself said, If you love me, keep my commandments.

And the sheep that the Lord gives eternal life unto, and that shall never perish are those who hear his words.

Are we listening to the Lord’s words by his apostles? Or are we devising means by which we do not do them?

 

[Dino246]

Yea there is a reason for that.

Which, I note, you did not articulate. I fully suspect that it is chauvinistic, but you're welcome to attempt to prove me wrong.

The men of God are very crystal clear about this matter; it is a shame to let women try to lead men.

Men who claim to be of God state such things, but you won't find the bolded statement in the word of God.

A prophet predicted them correctly in the name of God when he said that "those that lead you cause you to go astray, children are their oppressors and women rule over them."

Isaiah wasn't "predicting" anything in that verse; he was speaking the Lord's assessment of the then-current situation.

 

[tourist]

"Therefore beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction"
-2 Corinthians 3:15-16

The Apostle Peter validated the divine inspiration of all of Paul's letters.
If you disagree, we have no common ground until you read what the Bible says about your opinion

As this is not a salvation issue I'm all set. Of course, Paul's letters were divinely inspired, that is why the letters are in the bible. As Peter eloquently stated, some of the things Paul wrote are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort. I am quite confident in my position about women based on my understanding of scripture.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Which, I note, you did not articulate. I fully suspect that it is chauvinistic, but you're welcome to attempt to prove me wrong.


Men who claim to be of God state such things, but you won't find the bolded statement in the word of God.


Isaiah wasn't "predicting" anything in that verse; he was speaking the Lord's assessment of the then-current situation.

1 Timothy 2:11-15

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

 

[tourist]

Yea there is a reason for that. Either way it doesn't change the point one bit. The men of God are very crystal clear about this matter; it is a shame to let women try to lead men. A prophet predicted them correctly in the name of God when he said that "those that lead you cause you to go astray, children are their oppressors and women rule over them."

Who are these men of God that you are referring to? Are there any such men on this site? I believe that there are a few.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

Who are these men of God that you are referring to? Are there any such men on this site? I believe that there are a few.

The men of God that wrote the Bible and/or are written of in the Bible.

 

[tourist]

Well, I bet they are truly relieved that you are giving them a pass........... As for 1 Timothy, being married IS NOT a requirement, nor does Paul state that. He simply understands that the majority of adult men at that time were married. As well, he ALSO said men should NOT marry didn't he? And many people completely misunderstand the writings of the Apostle Paul.

Briefly, he wrote in two styles.........thus sayeth the Lord and I would rather that, it would be better that. Thus sayeth the Lord means just that. It is a commandment, and not to be argued. I would rather that, it would be better that was when Paul was expressing his PERSONAL beliefs on the best way to live a Christian life. It WAS NOT a commandment from God!

When reading his Epistles, it is extremely necessary to recognize which style he is writing in BEFORE one decides to use what he writes to establish REQUIREMENTS for the Church.

Just as it was Paul's estimate that women should not preach or hold positions of authority, it was Paul's estimate that people should not marry. as you carefully pointed out. Neither position was stated categorically by God.

If it is indeed wrong and possibly sinful, in all circumstances and situations that women should not be allowed to preach in church and hold positions of authority, then it is also wrong and possibly sinful, based on Paul's admonishment not to marry. Neither is wrong but wisdom and discernment should be used when considering all scripture, including the writing of Paul.

As you have said, there was no thus sayeth the Lord about women or marriage in regards to the writing of Paul. Now, Paul's writing, as all scripture, was divinely inspired, but again, discernment and discernment should be utilized.

As I have stated, quite a few times, all scripture is truthfully stated but all scripture is not a statement of truth.

 

[tourist]

Nonsense. Paul was commissioned to settle Church doctrine once and for all by revelation from Jesus DIRECTLY. Pauls very words are inspired by the Holy Spirit and in fact ARE Scripture.

Of course Paul's words are scripture. Regarding the settling of church doctrine once and for all, are you saying that church doctrine has not changed or should be changed, depending on particular circumstances and situations since Paul settled things once and for all, 2000 years ago? I find the perception that Paul settled church doctrine once and for all and should never be modified or changed to be Nonsense.

 

[tourist]

The men of God that wrote the Bible and/or are written of in the Bible.

There are some women of God that have prominent mention in the bible as well.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

There are some women of God that have prominent mention in the bible as well.

Yes, and they all acted in a manner in accordance to the writings of the men of God whom said how women should act and what their role is in all godliness. Examples like Deborah whom submitted to the authority of Barak, Esther whom submitted to her husband Xerxes, and Mary, the sister of Martha, whom silently sat listening to the words of Jesus.

The Bible is also so complete with the wisdom of God that we also have examples of the wicked nature of women such as Athaliah whom tried to usurp the authority of the kingdom of Judah, Vashti whom did not obey her husband and was put away so that the women would not learn to disrespect their husbands, and of course Jezebel whom taught the people to worship idols and commit fornication and duped her wicked husband to do many evil things.

 

[Kolistus]

No, I'm a full grown man who, unlike you , doesn't have the talegas to tell God he can't pick a woman to preach.
And you're wrong. That's not a little testimony. That's a sorry confession.
If you're an example of your church, you're right. You are against a woman preacher from the start. God could send the female equivalent of John the Baptist and you'd condemn her before she opened her mouth.

Those same verses in that picture ridiculing the Bible that you saved to send to your daughter later, all those are Bible verses.

God and the Apostles had the right to say whats what. If you dont wish to accept that, you can keep barking at God (and those who do choose to follow His teachings) all day, it wont change a thing. You say bigot god, yet the Bible verses are still there, the bigot god IS the God of the Bible in fact. The 21st century idea of equality, human rights, women's rights are all foreign to the pages of Scripture. The Apostle Paul even returned a slave home, so you can hold to all the above mentioned ideas, but its hard to make a case from the Bible that it is so.

 

[Kolistus]

David Pawson has a good book about this, anyone interested in the orthodox view point on this issue can check it out if they please. Remember to look at the fruit each doctrine has produced, ever since we went against the Apostle's guidance on this (in my opinion) has the church gotten better or more apostate? You decide.

 

[notuptome]

David Pawson has a good book about this, anyone interested in the orthodox view point on this issue can check it out if they please. Remember to look at the fruit each doctrine has produced, ever since we went against the Apostle's guidance on this (in my opinion) has the church gotten better or more apostate? You decide.

The congregations must want them to have them.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[cv5]

Of course Paul's words are scripture. Regarding the settling of church doctrine once and for all, are you saying that church doctrine has not changed or should be changed, depending on particular circumstances and situations since Paul settled things once and for all, 2000 years ago? I find the perception that Paul settled church doctrine once and for all and should never be modified or changed to be Nonsense.

I find that which you consider to be nonsense to be nonsense.