Is irresistible grace (effectual calling) a biblical doctrine?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Is irresistible grace (effectual calling) a biblical doctrine?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 44.4%
  • No

    Votes: 9 50.0%
  • I don't know.

    Votes: 1 5.6%

  • Total voters
    18

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
Free Will: Does Salvation Depend on a Person's Choice?

At the time of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther wrote a book entitled, The Bondage of the Will. This book was written against a man named Erasmus and his teaching that man has free-will, that is, the ability to choose whether or not he would be saved. Luther told Erasmus that this question about free-will was the most important issue of the Reformation. He said, "You [i.e., Erasmus] have not worried me with extraneous issues about the papacy, purgatory, indulgences, and such like, trifles rather than issues ... you, and you alone, have seen the hinge on which all turns, and have aimed for the vital spot."

In spite of what Luther wrote, the teaching of Erasmus concerning free-will has become the teaching of most of Protestantism today. Free-will is:

(1) A denial of predestination. Predestination means that God's will (God's choice) determines all things, including who will be saved (Ephesians 1:3-6). Free-will teaches that man's choice is the decisive thing in salvation.

(2) A denial of the biblical truth that saving faith is a gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-10). Free-will teaches that faith is a person's own decision to trust in Christ.

(3) A denial of the truth that Christ died only for His people (Matthew 1:21). Free-will teaches that Christ died for all without exception and that their salvation now depends on their accepting Him, that is, on their "free-will" choice.

Belief in free-will also shows itself in the kind of preaching and evangelism that is most popular today, the kind that begs sinners to accept Christ, that uses altar calls, appeals, decision times, raising of hands, and other such tactics to persuade them to do so. All these things presuppose that a person's salvation depends on his own choice.

We believe that man's will is in bondage to sin and that he not only cannot do good, but he cannot even want (will) to do it (Romans 8:7-8). Especially he cannot do the greatest good of all, of choosing God and Christ.

We believe, therefore, that man cannot believe in Christ unless it is "given him from above" (John 6:44).

We also believe that not man's will, but God's sovereign and eternal will (predestination) is the decisive thing in salvation (Acts 13:48; Philippians 2:13).

What, then, is the point of preaching the gospel to all? It is "the power of God unto salvation" (Romans 1:16), the way in which God gives faith and repentance to all those whom He has chosen from eternity and redeemed in Christ. May it be that power unto salvation for many!

The Reformation Resurgence Arminian CPR.jpg
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
What, then, is the point of preaching the gospel to all? It is "the power of God unto salvation" (Romans 1:16), the way in which God gives faith and repentance to all those whom He has chosen from eternity and redeemed in Christ. May it be that power unto salvation for many!
Let’s not stop the verse there...

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

No one can be chosen to believe. That goes against the very meaning of the word believe. Belief is a personal, unforced acceptance in something or someone.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
Let’s not stop the verse there...

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

No one can be chosen to believe. That goes against the very meaning of the word believe. Belief is a personal, unforced acceptance in something or someone.
Belief is a trait of those saved by grace. You turn the gospel into law and grace into works when "choosing to believe" becomes a condition for salvation. If you must choose to believe it, it is because you don't believe. But must force yourself into thinking you believe.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
Belief is a trait of those saved by grace. You turn the gospel into law and grace into works when "choosing to believe" becomes a condition for salvation. If you must choose to believe it, it is because you don't believe. But must force yourself into thinking you believe.
Nice try, but no.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
Try again, no works. Can you show we’re believing is a work of the law? Thanks.
Free will turns the gospel into law and Grace into works. You must be saved by grace before you can believe. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Law cannot save.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
Free will turns the gospel into law and Grace into works. You must be saved by grace before you can believe. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Law cannot save.
I’m not looking for opinions.🤦‍♂️
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
Attached is a good article on misrepresentations of Reformed (Calvinist) theology that are commonly employed by free-willers.

It seems like Christians would be more conscientious about representing others' beliefs even if they disagree with them. But, unfortunately, I've found that some Christians are not conscientious in this regard and deliberately misrepresent the theology of their opponents in some cases. In other cases, it's a matter of ignorance and repeating the claims of other ignorant men. Dave Hunt would be an example of one such individual.
 

Attachments

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
Here's a very handy chart of Scriptural proof texts to the doctrines of grace (TULIP) related to Reformed (Calvinist) doctrine. I don't agree with every single reference, but the majority are decent.
 

Attachments

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
By the way, the claim that Reformed theology teaches that God "forces" people to express faith and repentance is an infantile claim.

Reformed theology teaches that God gives the fallen man a new nature that causes him to respond freely in faith and repentance.

There is no "forcing" and this is an infantile claim, whether it's made by a Reformed person or a Pelagian like Jesse Morrell.

This sort of lying and misrepresentation should be exposed.
 

Attachments

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
79
28
By the way, the claim that Reformed theology teaches that God "forces" people to express faith and repentance is an infantile claim.

Reformed theology teaches that God gives the fallen man a new nature that causes him to respond freely in faith and repentance.

There is no "forcing" and this is an infantile claim, whether it's made by a Reformed person or a Pelagian like Jesse Morrell.

This sort of lying and misrepresentation should be exposed.
What is the difference between “forces” and “causes”?
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
What is the difference between “forces” and “causes”?
Forces would imply something against their will. The nature, and thus the will, is changed by God.

The typical propagandistic memes by free-willers are some armed SWAT guys battering down a front door. I've seen this one used by Jesse Morrell and his Pelagian-like goons.

God causes faith and repentance, but he doesn't force it.
 

Washed

Active member
Mar 27, 2020
190
79
28
Forces would imply something against their will. The nature, and thus the will, is changed by God.

The typical propagandistic memes by free-willers are some armed SWAT guys battering down a front door. I've seen this one used by Jesse Morrell and his Pelagian-like goons.

God causes faith and repentance, but he doesn't force it.
If, as Calvinists claim, grace is irresistible, then causing faith is forcing it. If you don’t think it is, please explain the difference.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
If, as Calvinists claim, grace is irresistible, then causing faith is forcing it. If you don’t think it is, please explain the difference.
If your wife was irresistible, to the point where you desired no other woman but her, therefore you could not live without her and married her, then does that mean she forced you to marry her?

God gives man a nature that causes the man to desire him above all things. That is the only way the man will be attracted to God, because other than that, he hates God and his law, by nature, and loves his sin (Romans 1, 8:7 Ephesians 2, and the whole book of Romans).

By the way, the word "grace" means, among other things, divine empowerment, and God does certainly empower the elect in an irresistible way. All that he draws comes to him, and they are raised up on the last day (John 6:44).

Despite the words of the site humanist, that is what John 6 is clearly teaching. God doesn't add a bunch of "ifs" to John 6:44. Those who are drawn come, and the are raised up on the last day (the resurrection of the just).

Now, perseverance is part of God's work of salvation, but that still doesn't change what John 6:44 says. All that are drawn come, and they are raised up.