Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
Well if and when you come back...
Paul never teaches salvation is a reward and he makes that very clear in Romans several times.
It is not eternal salvation of which he speaks. We do not obtain the gift of God—eternal life—by diligence or by “running.”
It is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy
(Rom 9:16).
The incorruptible crown is not salvation here.
It is a reward.
The crowns received in a earthly race fade and tarnish.
We are striving for an imperishable prize, a crown that is incorruptible.
All believers who die will be raised in the first resurrection to incorruptibility (as 1 Corinthians 15 assures us), but the incorruptible crown is the prize for faithfully running the Christian race, which only the saved can do!!
Paul never teaches salvation is a reward and he makes that very clear in Romans several times.
It is not eternal salvation of which he speaks. We do not obtain the gift of God—eternal life—by diligence or by “running.”
It is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy
(Rom 9:16).
The incorruptible crown is not salvation here.
It is a reward.
Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible (1 Cor 9:25).
We are striving for an imperishable prize, a crown that is incorruptible.
All believers who die will be raised in the first resurrection to incorruptibility (as 1 Corinthians 15 assures us), but the incorruptible crown is the prize for faithfully running the Christian race, which only the saved can do!!
-
2
- Show all
E
I am just a poor boy, though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance for a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest, hmmmm
Simon and Garfunkel
The Boxer
-
1
- Show all
If everyone is acting like you then no one sees that they are wrong.
You are not addressing the points of the post. It says what it says.
God says, in Phil2:12,13 Work out your own salvation (race) with fear and trembling For It is God that works in us, both will do His good pleasure. That is to start and finish the race.
If that is a works based salvation then I say praise God work that work that I may finish the race.
You are not addressing the points of the post. It says what it says.
God says, in Phil2:12,13 Work out your own salvation (race) with fear and trembling For It is God that works in us, both will do His good pleasure. That is to start and finish the race.
If that is a works based salvation then I say praise God work that work that I may finish the race.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
E
Salvation is already a possession in Phil 2:12-13
So then you do believe salvation is a reward.
You contradict scripture plain as day in multiple places
You always try to put us on the defensive ... here deal with these... waiting
It is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy
(Rom 9:16).
Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation.
Romans 4:4
So then you do believe salvation is a reward.
You contradict scripture plain as day in multiple places
You always try to put us on the defensive ... here deal with these... waiting
It is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy
(Rom 9:16).
Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation.
Romans 4:4
-
1
- Show all
Acting like me? No matter how I act, if I don't agree with you, then you will find fault with me, regardless. I already addressed 1 Corinthians 9:18-27 in two posts. I don't need to address your points of your post in order to make my points. If you can't see the truth in my two posts, then you won't see it if I take the time to address your post point by point either.
In regards to Philippians 2:12-13, notice that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and not "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have.
The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it's still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified by faith. Ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, perfect life (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ (Romans 5:1).
The race is not about earning salvation by works and you do peddle works salvation.
Whether believers finish the race with a gold medal, silver medal, bronze or no medal (just like an Olympic athlete) they are still justified by faith and are not disqualified from salvation. Just like Olympics athletes are not disqualified from the Olympics for not receiving a medal.
In regards to Philippians 2:12-13, notice that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and not "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have.
The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it's still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified by faith. Ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, perfect life (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ (Romans 5:1).
The race is not about earning salvation by works and you do peddle works salvation.
Whether believers finish the race with a gold medal, silver medal, bronze or no medal (just like an Olympic athlete) they are still justified by faith and are not disqualified from salvation. Just like Olympics athletes are not disqualified from the Olympics for not receiving a medal.-
1
-
1
- Show all
E
Acting like me? No matter how I act, if I don't agree with you, then you will find fault with me, regardless. I already addressed 1 Corinthians 9:18-27 in two posts. I don't need to address your points of your post in order to make my points. If you can't see the truth in my two posts, then you won't see it if I take the time to address your post point by point either.
In regards to Philippians 2:12-13, notice that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and not "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have.
The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it's still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified by faith. Ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, perfect life (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ (Romans 5:1).
The race is not about earning salvation by works and you do peddle works salvation. Whether believers finish the race with a gold medal, silver medal, bronze or no medal (just like an Olympic athlete) they are still justified by faith and are not disqualified from salvation.
In regards to Philippians 2:12-13, notice that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and not "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have.
The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it's still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified by faith. Ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, perfect life (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ (Romans 5:1).
The race is not about earning salvation by works and you do peddle works salvation.
Whether believers finish the race with a gold medal, silver medal, bronze or no medal (just like an Olympic athlete) they are still justified by faith and are not disqualified from salvation.
-
1
- Show all
Of course I grasp that not all of them were genuine believers. The point I'm contending with is the assertion that since they were unbelievers they were always unbelievers right from the start. The text doesn't say that. You have to add that osas presupposition to the passage in order to get that out of the passage. The passage itself doesn't say that.
-
1
- Show all
Depending on your beliefs about the Book of Life, perhaps more names will be blotted out of the Book than retained.
When is a person's name put in the Book of Life?
"9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. " - Romans 7:9
When does a person's name get removed from the Book of Life? When they sin? When they reject Christ (for the last time). Or when they physically die?
That is not happening. The Father does not allow that.
Believers who go back to unbelief and are turned over to that unbelief by God can't come back.
God doesn't allow it for the very reason you cite. It crucifies Christ all over again which subjects Him to open shame.
When is a person's name put in the Book of Life?
"9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. " - Romans 7:9
When does a person's name get removed from the Book of Life? When they sin? When they reject Christ (for the last time). Or when they physically die?
That is not happening. The Father does not allow that.
Believers who go back to unbelief and are turned over to that unbelief by God can't come back.
God doesn't allow it for the very reason you cite. It crucifies Christ all over again which subjects Him to open shame.
-
1
-
1
- Show all