Is the God of the NT the same God as the God of the OT?

[Dino246]

It gets old reading the undisciplined unfettered personal assaults that regurgitate themselves in these forums.

Our precious Father tells us to pray for our enemies. I did not see any scripture that tells us we must concede to that enemy action so as to remain a target under their feet, nor of and to their hate filled tongues. Imagine how starve an enemy becomes if you simply pray them attention, rather than pay them attention.
Continue to live the peace of Christ. It really makes them angry. As you can see.

And nothing you say or do will stop the advance of the evil aligned against you sister. They are legion.

It gets even older when a straightforward comment is grossly mischaracterized as an "undisciplined unfettered personal assault".

That chip on your shoulder has grown larger. You should deal with it.

 

[JohnR7]

It has always been that the blood of Christ was required for salvation

A popular belief is that everyone is in the book of life. God's desire is for all to be saved. Only there are names that are blotted out of His book.

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." (Rev 13:8)

"Like them, the one who is victorious will be dressed in white. And I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels." (Rev 3:5) "

Exodus 32:33 The LORD replied to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot out of My book."

 

[Whispered]

It gets even older when a straightforward comment is grossly mischaracterized as an "undisciplined unfettered personal assault".

That chip on your shoulder has grown larger. You should deal with it.

The boulder shoulder is yours alone as you attached your name to a generalization I posted concerning wicked behaviors.

 

[Blik]

Why did he reduce some of them to cannibalism? Send famine and war. Like he does today?

I am certain that scripture tells the truth. The earth was created to operate in a way that creates joy and abundance but there is sin in the world that creates death and destruction.

I have studied history and watched how families operate. That seems to be how the world runs. God gives us an outline of how to create goodness and peace, and those who follow those natural laws do seem to have what scripture promises. There is war, sickness and storms that happens anyway but I don't think it is God that brings them. I have even checked people whose face seems to radiate happiness and a certain look of peace I watch for that seems to mark the Christian.

 

[Blik]

It gets old reading the undisciplined unfettered personal assaults that regurgitate themselves in these forums.

Our precious Father tells us to pray for our enemies. I did not see any scripture that tells us we must concede to that enemy action so as to remain a target under their feet, nor of and to their hate filled tongues. Imagine how starve an enemy becomes if you simply pray them attention, rather than pay them attention.
Continue to live the peace of Christ. It really makes them angry. As you can see.

And nothing you say or do will stop the advance of the evil aligned against you sister. They are legion.

The Lord wraps me in peace and joy and the world goes on as it chooses, I am protected.

 

[Blik]

It gets even older when a straightforward comment is grossly mischaracterized as an "undisciplined unfettered personal assault".

That chip on your shoulder has grown larger. You should deal with it.

I am judged by the Lord, I really don't require your judgments or advise on how to live.

 

[Whispered]

The Lord wraps me in peace and joy and the world goes on as it chooses, I am protected.

All who are in Christ are. It is good you said that. HA Satan wasn't aware of this when he pursued Job. Information lasts and forewarns the enemy of God. Yet, HA Satan was able to be somewhat surprised, else he wouldn't have accepted the wager.

 

[Mii]

It is entirely possible that simple responses can be easily misunderstood. I didn't find @Dino246 's comment incendiary

I've posted in many different moods and it's amazing how different each can affect me when interacting with blunt replies. Or at least they "seem" blunt. It is exceptionally difficult to tell the difference between blunt (toward rudeness and condescension) and someone simply being succinct.


It also makes sense that when someone is putting a lot of heart into something, they are more vulnerable to critique and we should all endeavor not to take things too "personally"


I responded earlier to another post. Are you saying in the OP that prior to the propitiation it still required faith to make sacrificial offerings for sin?

There's a lot that can be drawn from atonement made prior to the Word made flesh and after. You could even have a discussion about the differences of the systems themselves and how intricate each offering was and how all encompassing the propitiation IS. Contrasting the faith of the Israelites under the mosaic covenant and the new covenant. Bring in fulfillment of the law...etc etc.

There's a good bit to talk about, and a lot of connections that can be made factoring in each precept in scripture. It is totally understandable how it could come across as potentially insulting (and leading to confusion) if someone were to tell me to "pray about it" when a connection was vague in the first place. I've been told similar things and I just find them confusing...not insulting but still I'd have liked clarification when these occurred.


I liked the two verses together and it allowed me to think in a lot of directions, but personal insight without expounding for corporate benefit limits utility for some I've found for sure.

 

[Dino246]

I am judged by the Lord, I really don't require your judgments or advise on how to live.

My post was directed to Whispered, not you.

 

[Whispered]

It is entirely possible that simple responses can be easily misunderstood. I didn't find @Dino246 's comment incendiary

I've posted in many different moods and it's amazing how different each can affect me when interacting with blunt replies. Or at least they "seem" blunt. It is exceptionally difficult to tell the difference between blunt (toward rudeness and condescension) and someone simply being succinct.


It also makes sense that when someone is putting a lot of heart into something, they are more vulnerable to critique and we should all endeavor not to take things too "personally"
I responded earlier to another post. Are you saying in the OP that prior to the propitiation it still required faith to make sacrificial offerings for sin?

There's a lot that can be drawn from atonement made prior to the Word made flesh and after. You could even have a discussion about the differences of the systems themselves and how intricate each offering was and how all encompassing the propitiation IS. Contrasting the faith of the Israelites under the mosaic covenant and the new covenant. Bring in fulfillment of the law...etc etc.

There's a good bit to talk about, and a lot of connections that can be made factoring in each precept in scripture. It is totally understandable how it could come across as potentially insulting (and leading to confusion) if someone were to tell me to "pray about it" when a connection was vague in the first place. I've been told similar things and I just find them confusing...not insulting but still I'd have liked clarification when these occurred.


I liked the two verses together and it allowed me to think in a lot of directions, but personal insight without expounding for corporate benefit limits utility for some I've found for sure.

Nice post. However, I did not name anyone in my remarks. Consciousness of guilt will lead someone to take a post concerning bad behavior personally, at times. In this particular case what I said as a generality invited that one and their consciousness of guilt to defend, and in the same method and manner as referenced in my general post.

There is a world of difference between blunt replies and derogatory insults. The former can be understood as we are in a personal relationship with God and as such we feel compelled to define and defend that from time to time.
The latter has no such excuse. Though God knows the greatest offenders have tried, including the wordy defense wherein they claim Jesus acted the same way.
My sister would say after her encounters with dark spirited members of the Christian and Bible sites she'd frequent, you can't defend the God of love by acting like the disciple of the lord of division and hate.

 

[Whispered]

I am judged by the Lord, I really don't require your judgments or advise on how to live.

Beautiful!
However, the quote you responded to was directed at me. However, when it caused you to respond with that bold truth, I think it is God who guided your wise words. You summarized the motives at least in part of that energy I condemned in my prior post. God bless you.

Now, enough of this paying attention to that which cannot discuss any topic in BDF civilly. It isn't fair to hijack Blik's thread in this way. I did that and now it keeps going and the actual topic is obscured. Forgive my derail Blik.

 

[Blik]

It is entirely possible that simple responses can be easily misunderstood. I didn't find @Dino246 's comment incendiary

I've posted in many different moods and it's amazing how different each can affect me when interacting with blunt replies. Or at least they "seem" blunt. It is exceptionally difficult to tell the difference between blunt (toward rudeness and condescension) and someone simply being succinct.


It also makes sense that when someone is putting a lot of heart into something, they are more vulnerable to critique and we should all endeavor not to take things too "personally"


I responded earlier to another post. Are you saying in the OP that prior to the propitiation it still required faith to make sacrificial offerings for sin?

There's a lot that can be drawn from atonement made prior to the Word made flesh and after. You could even have a discussion about the differences of the systems themselves and how intricate each offering was and how all encompassing the propitiation IS. Contrasting the faith of the Israelites under the mosaic covenant and the new covenant. Bring in fulfillment of the law...etc etc.

There's a good bit to talk about, and a lot of connections that can be made factoring in each precept in scripture. It is totally understandable how it could come across as potentially insulting (and leading to confusion) if someone were to tell me to "pray about it" when a connection was vague in the first place. I've been told similar things and I just find them confusing...not insulting but still I'd have liked clarification when these occurred.


I liked the two verses together and it allowed me to think in a lot of directions, but personal insight without expounding for corporate benefit limits utility for some I've found for sure.

How I wish we could sit over coffee and talk.

I try to see scripture from God's point of view, from looking at things without our limitations of living in time. God lives in eternal time, so when God told people to sacrifice animals God knew what Christ did and that the animal blood was only symbolic. It must have been bewildering to people of that time when God asked for animal sacrifice. As we read in Isaiah some people did that as the pagans did, to feed God. Isaiah tells us that disgusted the lord.

When you study all the OT scriptures that speaks of the salvation offered in OT times, it points to that the only difference in it was that what changed when our kinds of time applied only from symbolic blood to the blood of Christ.

In Hebrews 11 it is OT saints that are listed as having faith.

There are so many scriptures that tell us God is eternal and stays the same always. The physical world changes constantly. Eternity is a difficult concept for us.

 

[Whispered]

Scripture tells us they are the same God. That would mean that what we are told of God in the Torah is true of Christ. It has always been that the blood of Christ was required for salvation, although until Christ lived as a man and was crucified it was a mystery.

Lev. 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

It has always been that sin brings death, and grace brings life. It has always been that it is through faith that we receive forgiveness, and repentance is required.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever!

There is a difference between the old covenant and the Old Testament. Blood as we know sealed the Covenants.The New Covenant began with the crucifixion of Christ. Christ's blood sealed the new Covenant, one of grace, so that whosoever would believe in Christ would be saved. And there is a difference between the New Testament and that New Covenant as well.
Jesus being God in the New Testament tells us that Jesus was God of the Old. Jesus came only for the lost sheep of the House of Israel, as He said in His ministry. We know that Jews were the first "Christians", and all of Jesus Disciples were Jews. After Jesus resurrected He instructed His Apostles as they were counted after that, to go into all the world and spread the good news.
Salvation, be it Old or New Covenant, has always been by God’s grace and can only be received through faith.

He was the Messiah of the Old Testament and yet was not received by the elders the temple/Synagogue. And yet there was a purpose for that in God's plan. We are all one in Christ. No Jews, no Gentiles, male, female. Jesus' blood covers the sins of the world and by God's grace all who believe shall be saved.
The Epistle to the Romans chapter 4

 

[kaylagrl]

How do you explain the huge difference of peace now and violence then between the covenants?

Because now we have Christ to intervene between God and man. He became the sacrifice, He took our sins and erased them with His blood.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Yes, infact I see Christ through out the OT.

 

[Dave-L]

Because now we have Christ to intervene between God and man. He became the sacrifice, He took our sins and erased them with His blood.

Abel had Christ. So did Abraham. Jesus is God. The difference is in the New Covenant for believers only and not for the wicked unbelievers who made up the vast majority of the Old Covenant.

 

[Dave-L]

I am certain that scripture tells the truth. The earth was created to operate in a way that creates joy and abundance but there is sin in the world that creates death and destruction.

I have studied history and watched how families operate. That seems to be how the world runs. God gives us an outline of how to create goodness and peace, and those who follow those natural laws do seem to have what scripture promises. There is war, sickness and storms that happens anyway but I don't think it is God that brings them. I have even checked people whose face seems to radiate happiness and a certain look of peace I watch for that seems to mark the Christian.

How can God be good letting these things happen when he could stop them?

He IS good and sends them in judgement on wicked people. Even the ones that look good. This he sent on his chosen people. How about those he did not choose?

“I will send a time of hunger and wild animals against you, and they will kill your children. Disease and death will sweep through your people, and I will bring the sword against you to kill you. I, the LORD, have spoken.”” Ezekiel 5:17 (NCV)

 

[Dave-L]

I think we have to recall that when tragedy occurs on a giant scale, like an earthquake that takes out a region of a foreign land, or as years ago when Katrina devastated parts of the United States, that there are people who will invoke God as the cause.

Perhaps we might realize that since God has told us He does not change and is the same as yesterday, today and forever, that the reason some may think today's God isn't the vengeful one we read of in the OT, is because people like those aforementioned one's aren't considered to be adding to the New Testament texts the actions of God, as they see it, and as was done in the Old Testament.

God sent the global flood. (The Book of Genesis chapter 6)
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, (Genesis 18) out of vengeance for the sins committed there. Just two examples that tell us, while the new covenant reconciles us to God, God is still the same Holy Spirit "he" was in the old covenant. Only now when those aforementioned types state that the devastation that occurred on a mass scale was God's vengeance for whatever sin they name, those people are often mocked, even by Christians, and are dismissed as kooks. Even by television pastors of the fundamentalist type.
That's what can lead to people thinking there are two different God's referred to in the two covenants. When Christians say, no it isn't possible that Katrina was God's wrath for these sins.... It leads people to ask the question: then why was God the one responsible for the devastation of the first born of every Egyptian house? (The Book of Exodus chapter 11)

Some Christians will deny all that. While others will defend God saying, He's God. He can do whatever He likes with his creation. And those to positions in and of themselves put Christians at odds with the question asked early on in a different thread. "Is God a moral monster?"
If we did as God did to our enemies, would we be considered to be in Christ?

I know, "It's a mystery."
No, it's in the Bible.
God loves us.

All that happens good or bad in our view comes from God. He doesn't change. But the New Covenant is believers only and his plan for us changed with the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[Whispered]

All that happens good or bad in our view comes from God. He doesn't change. But the New Covenant is believers only and his plan for us changed with the Sermon on the Mount.

Would you elaborate as to what you mean when you say that which I put in bold above? Thank you.

 

[Whispered]

How can God be good letting these things happen when he could stop them?

He IS good and sends them in judgement on wicked people. Even the ones that look good. This he sent on his chosen people. How about those he did not choose?

“I will send a time of hunger and wild animals against you, and they will kill your children. Disease and death will sweep through your people, and I will bring the sword against you to kill you. I, the LORD, have spoken.”” Ezekiel 5:17 (NCV)

Are you then of the belief, like those I've mentioned before, who think storms , earthquakes, floods, that cost countless lives are acts of God judging those areas where such things occur?