Five-Fold (or Four-Fold) Ministry

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presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
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113
#1
Five-fold (or four-fold) ministry.

Ephesians 4 tells us of Christ ascending on high and giving gifts unto men (Paul's paraphrase from the Psalms where He ascends on high and receives gifts for men.) Some of the gifts are listed in verse 11, apostles, prophets, evangelists, prophets and teachers.

Some churches nowadays teach that these are active ministries for the church. Let us consider this and consider what these ministries are.

Apostles:
'Apostle' means 'sent one.' In Matthew 9, Jesus says to pray the Lord of the harvest to send forth laborers into His harvest. Then He prays all night, and chooses 12 of His disciples, calling them apostles. He sends them out telling them to heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, and cast out devils. He tells them to preach 'Repent for the kingdom of heaven as at hand' as they went into towns and villages. Mark first calls these sent ones 'apostles' after they return from their mission.

Saul of Tarsus saw the risen Lord and was told that he would testify of the Lord before Israel and the Gentiles. Years later, the Spirit spoke to a number of prophets and teachers in Antioch. Among them were Saul and Barnabas. Acts 13 opens telling us how the Spirit spoke to these men, telling them to separate Barnabas and Saul for the work to which the Spirit called them.

They go from city to city, preaching in synagogues and market places, proclaiming that Jesus is the Messiah. They encouraged churches that formed, and returned and appointed elders. They returned to Antioch having completed the assignment they were given. Paul and Barnabas are first called 'apostles' in Acts after they had begun this journey and ministry (Acts 14:4;14.)

Generally, in scripture, apostles laid foundations of the church. Paul and Barnabas, Silas and Timothy (I Thes. 1:1, and II Thes. 2:6) were referred to as apostles. Also, it is likely that Paul includes Apollos as an apostle in I Corinthians 4:9, given the context.

In II Corinthians 10, we see that the authors had a 'measure of rule' that extended to the Corinthians because they had gone as far as them with the Gospel, and wanted to extend their measure further by being assisted to go further and reach more places with the Gospel. Paul wrote in I Corinthians 9 that they were the seal of his apostleship in the Lord. Apparently, the fact that they had converted and existed as a church was evidence that the Lord sent him. Earlier in the book, he tells them that had many teachers, but not many fathers, for in the Gospel he had become their father. I see these concepts as tied up with Paul's apostleship. The church existed through Paul's apostolic gift. He was sent to preach and evangelize, and through his and his apostolic coworker's ministry, the church came into being.

The role of 'apostle' has to do with being sent by the Lord. Often, it involves preaching and what we now call 'church planting.' There were the twelve apostles, but also apostles given as gifts after the ascension as we see in Ephesians 4.

Prophets
There many examples of prophets in the Old Testament. Peter described them when he said 'holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.' (or were carried long by the Holy Ghost.) The same words for 'prophet' and 'prophesy' are used to refer to New Testament phenomenon as Old Testament phenomenon, so we should not think that the meaning of the words drastically changed. Genuine prophesying refers to language or communication that occurs as one is moved by the Holy Ghost.

Prophets, like other believers, are supposed to be allowed to speak in the assembly ('in church.') I Corinthians 14 gives 'commandments of the Lord' for church meetings. Verse 26 shows that this is about meetings where 'every one of you' has a psalm, doctrine, tongue, revelation, or interpretation. The passage specifically commands to let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. Prophecy is revelatory. The next verse says if a revelation comes to one sitting by, let the first hold his peace. The next verse continues for ye may all prophesy one by one....

Prophets have a special ministry related to prophecy and sometimes other revelatory gifts also.

Evangelists
Ephesians 4:11 mentions evangelists, gifts from Christ. Acts 8 tells of Philip, who went down to Samaria and preached Christ, doing signs and wonders. He preached and won many converts in a city there, baptizing them, and and leaving 'follow up' for the apostles from Jerusalem. He also ministered one on one and evangelized a eunuch who was curious about Isaiah 53. He baptized the man and disappeared. He reappeared elsewhere preaching.. II Timothy 4:5 tells Timothy to do the work of an evangelist but does not directly call him one.

From this we can gather that evangelists have a ministry of preaching the Gospel to those who have not yet believed it, bringing them to faith. An evangelist can speak and exhort the church like any other brother should be able to.

Pastors and teachers
Because of the way Ephesians 4:11 is written, many interpreters take this verse to be referring to one group of those who are both pastors and teachers. This passage is talking about a gift, and does not specify a church office. In Geneva, it became the custom to refer to priests/presbyters/elders as 'pastors'. They called their city government officials elders. Presbyterians copied the system on a national level, modifying city government officials as a church office, and creating a lot of confusion as to what church roles actually are.

'Pastors' here translates a word elsewhere translated 'shepherds'. Shepherds in Luke were watching their flocks by night. The picture is of those who take care of sheep. Paul instructed the elders of Ephesus to pastor the flock of God over Whom the Holy Ghost had made them bishops/overseers. Peter commanded the elders to pastor the flock of God. Jesus told Peter to pastor His sheep. Paul wrote of his own ministry, 'who pastors a flock and does not drink of the milk of the flock?'

Pastoral ministry is therefore a component of the elder/overseer role and also the role of apostles. That does not mean that someone could not have a gift to pastor but not yet be ordained. Ephesians 4:11 is a list of gifts to the church. In addition, to be an overseer, one must have certain life experiences and live up to certain lifestyle qualifications.

What I do not see in scripture is the idea that 'apostle' is a gift to have authority over church leaders, to have that special anointing to come in and take over other churches that one had no part in founding at all. I do not see where 'evangelist' or 'prophet' means someone who must have a leadership role on a church board.

I believe some people on the missions field and some involved in church planting have an apostolic gift. God may communicate their call to it, have them sent out also through the church, and empower and authorize them to preach and start new ministries. I seek to understand what the term 'apostle' means in scripture, not from the perspective of someone reading a 20th century book on the church agreeing on the canon using later criteria.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#2
Five-fold (or four-fold) ministry.

Ephesians 4 tells us of Christ ascending on high and giving gifts unto men (Paul's paraphrase from the Psalms where He ascends on high and receives gifts for men.) Some of the gifts are listed in verse 11, apostles, prophets, evangelists, prophets and teachers.

Some churches nowadays teach that these are active ministries for the church. Let us consider this and consider what these ministries are.

Apostles:
'Apostle' means 'sent one.' In Matthew 9, Jesus says to pray the Lord of the harvest to send forth laborers into His harvest. Then He prays all night, and chooses 12 of His disciples, calling them apostles. He sends them out telling them to heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, and cast out devils. He tells them to preach 'Repent for the kingdom of heaven as at hand' as they went into towns and villages. Mark first calls these sent ones 'apostles' after they return from their mission.

Saul of Tarsus saw the risen Lord and was told that he would testify of the Lord before Israel and the Gentiles. Years later, the Spirit spoke to a number of prophets and teachers in Antioch. Among them were Saul and Barnabas. Acts 13 opens telling us how the Spirit spoke to these men, telling them to separate Barnabas and Saul for the work to which the Spirit called them.

They go from city to city, preaching in synagogues and market places, proclaiming that Jesus is the Messiah. They encouraged churches that formed, and returned and appointed elders. They returned to Antioch having completed the assignment they were given. Paul and Barnabas are first called 'apostles' in Acts after they had begun this journey and ministry (Acts 14:4;14.)

Generally, in scripture, apostles laid foundations of the church. Paul and Barnabas, Silas and Timothy (I Thes. 1:1, and II Thes. 2:6) were referred to as apostles. Also, it is likely that Paul includes Apollos as an apostle in I Corinthians 4:9, given the context.

In II Corinthians 10, we see that the authors had a 'measure of rule' that extended to the Corinthians because they had gone as far as them with the Gospel, and wanted to extend their measure further by being assisted to go further and reach more places with the Gospel. Paul wrote in I Corinthians 9 that they were the seal of his apostleship in the Lord. Apparently, the fact that they had converted and existed as a church was evidence that the Lord sent him. Earlier in the book, he tells them that had many teachers, but not many fathers, for in the Gospel he had become their father. I see these concepts as tied up with Paul's apostleship. The church existed through Paul's apostolic gift. He was sent to preach and evangelize, and through his and his apostolic coworker's ministry, the church came into being.

The role of 'apostle' has to do with being sent by the Lord. Often, it involves preaching and what we now call 'church planting.' There were the twelve apostles, but also apostles given as gifts after the ascension as we see in Ephesians 4.

Prophets
There many examples of prophets in the Old Testament. Peter described them when he said 'holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.' (or were carried long by the Holy Ghost.) The same words for 'prophet' and 'prophesy' are used to refer to New Testament phenomenon as Old Testament phenomenon, so we should not think that the meaning of the words drastically changed. Genuine prophesying refers to language or communication that occurs as one is moved by the Holy Ghost.

Prophets, like other believers, are supposed to be allowed to speak in the assembly ('in church.') I Corinthians 14 gives 'commandments of the Lord' for church meetings. Verse 26 shows that this is about meetings where 'every one of you' has a psalm, doctrine, tongue, revelation, or interpretation. The passage specifically commands to let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. Prophecy is revelatory. The next verse says if a revelation comes to one sitting by, let the first hold his peace. The next verse continues for ye may all prophesy one by one....

Prophets have a special ministry related to prophecy and sometimes other revelatory gifts also.

Evangelists
Ephesians 4:11 mentions evangelists, gifts from Christ. Acts 8 tells of Philip, who went down to Samaria and preached Christ, doing signs and wonders. He preached and won many converts in a city there, baptizing them, and and leaving 'follow up' for the apostles from Jerusalem. He also ministered one on one and evangelized a eunuch who was curious about Isaiah 53. He baptized the man and disappeared. He reappeared elsewhere preaching.. II Timothy 4:5 tells Timothy to do the work of an evangelist but does not directly call him one.

From this we can gather that evangelists have a ministry of preaching the Gospel to those who have not yet believed it, bringing them to faith. An evangelist can speak and exhort the church like any other brother should be able to.

Pastors and teachers
Because of the way Ephesians 4:11 is written, many interpreters take this verse to be referring to one group of those who are both pastors and teachers. This passage is talking about a gift, and does not specify a church office. In Geneva, it became the custom to refer to priests/presbyters/elders as 'pastors'. They called their city government officials elders. Presbyterians copied the system on a national level, modifying city government officials as a church office, and creating a lot of confusion as to what church roles actually are.

'Pastors' here translates a word elsewhere translated 'shepherds'. Shepherds in Luke were watching their flocks by night. The picture is of those who take care of sheep. Paul instructed the elders of Ephesus to pastor the flock of God over Whom the Holy Ghost had made them bishops/overseers. Peter commanded the elders to pastor the flock of God. Jesus told Peter to pastor His sheep. Paul wrote of his own ministry, 'who pastors a flock and does not drink of the milk of the flock?'

Pastoral ministry is therefore a component of the elder/overseer role and also the role of apostles. That does not mean that someone could not have a gift to pastor but not yet be ordained. Ephesians 4:11 is a list of gifts to the church. In addition, to be an overseer, one must have certain life experiences and live up to certain lifestyle qualifications.

What I do not see in scripture is the idea that 'apostle' is a gift to have authority over church leaders, to have that special anointing to come in and take over other churches that one had no part in founding at all. I do not see where 'evangelist' or 'prophet' means someone who must have a leadership role on a church board.

I believe some people on the missions field and some involved in church planting have an apostolic gift. God may communicate their call to it, have them sent out also through the church, and empower and authorize them to preach and start new ministries. I seek to understand what the term 'apostle' means in scripture, not from the perspective of someone reading a 20th century book on the church agreeing on the canon using later criteria.
The Five Fold Ministry is not a sound doctrine as we are no longer living in an Apostatical Age. There is no need for Apostles or Prophets as God have given His word.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
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#3
The Five Fold Ministry is not a sound doctrine as we are no longer living in an Apostatical Age. There is no need for Apostles or Prophets as God have given His word.
If you believe that, we should be in agreement that examining the roles of apostles and prophets in scripture is still a profitable exercise.

Do you have scripture to back up your assertion, above?
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
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#4
If you believe that, we should be in agreement that examining the roles of apostles and prophets in scripture is still a profitable exercise.

Do you have scripture to back up your assertion, above?
Paul alludes to the notion of the responsibilities of the Church Deacons and Overseers. No mention of Apostles or Prophets.
1 Timothy
1 Corinthians.

Is there a reason you would assume that there still are Apostles or Prophets? If so, how are the commissioned?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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113
#5
Five-Fold (or Four-Fold) Ministry
Three-Fold Ministry would be more accurate.

1. Evangelists
2. Pastors
3. Teachers


So where are the apostles and prophets? They are in the Bible (2 Tim 3:16,7).

OLD TESTAMENT = THE PROPHETS (Moses and the Prophets)
NEW TESTAMENT = THE APOSTLES (who were also prophets)


Anyone claiming to be an apostle or prophet today is simply fooling himself and others.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
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#6
Paul alludes to the notion of the responsibilities of the Church Deacons and Overseers. No mention of Apostles or Prophets.
1 Timothy
1 Corinthians.

Is there a reason you would assume that there still are Apostles or Prophets? If so, how are the commissioned?
These are gifts that Christ gives to the church. There are other gifts like that that are given, for which scripture does not say the church must commission them: evangelists, helps, teaching, etc.

For apostles, though, we have an example of the saints doing 'commissioning' if you want to call it that. The passage says they were to separate them to ministry. The Spirit spoke and the prophets and teachers separated Barnabas and Saul. They went out and did what they were called to do and scripture begins to refer to them as apostles. Timothy also had a gift in him through prophecy with the laying on of hands of the presbytery.

There were prophets before the 12 apostles were appointed. God spoke to them and commissioned them. in most of the cases we see, this happened without God going through another prophet, though God did use Elijah in the case of Elisha.

Philip was appointed to serve and feed widows. But Philip had a gift in him. He went down to Samaria and preached Christ. It doesn't say the apostles or the church told him to. An angel told Philip to go to a certain place, and the Spirit told him to run along side a chariot. The Spirit caught Philip away and he was found at Azotus, where he preached.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
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#7
Three-Fold Ministry would be more accurate.

1. Evangelists
2. Pastors
3. Teachers


So where are the apostles and prophets? They are in the Bible (2 Tim 3:16,7).

OLD TESTAMENT = THE PROPHETS (Moses and the Prophets)
NEW TESTAMENT = THE APOSTLES (who were also prophets)


Anyone claiming to be an apostle or prophet today is simply fooling himself and others.
The passage you refer to does not support your argument. What about those verses supports what you are saying?
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
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#8
These are gifts that Christ gives to the church. There are other gifts like that that are given, for which scripture does not say the church must commission them: evangelists, helps, teaching, etc.

For apostles, though, we have an example of the saints doing 'commissioning' if you want to call it that. The passage says they were to separate them to ministry. The Spirit spoke and the prophets and teachers separated Barnabas and Saul. They went out and did what they were called to do and scripture begins to refer to them as apostles. Timothy also had a gift in him through prophecy with the laying on of hands of the presbytery.

There were prophets before the 12 apostles were appointed. God spoke to them and commissioned them. in most of the cases we see, this happened without God going through another prophet, though God did use Elijah in the case of Elisha.

Philip was appointed to serve and feed widows. But Philip had a gift in him. He went down to Samaria and preached Christ. It doesn't say the apostles or the church told him to. An angel told Philip to go to a certain place, and the Spirit told him to run along side a chariot. The Spirit caught Philip away and he was found at Azotus, where he preached.
God would speak directly to the Prophets. Jesus spoke directly to the Apostles. The gifts of the Spirit were given because the Gospels nor the Epistles has been codified as of yet.
God gave His revelation concerning man. There is no additional information He is proclaiming. We received His word(The Bible).

Anyone that makes the claim otherwise I would challenge. In all honesty a lot people either rely on wishful thinking or want to be something more.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#9
The passage you refer to does not support your argument. What about those verses supports what you are saying?
The passage which I am alluding to simply lists the spiritual gifts related to the ministry of the Word. At the time it was written, both apostles and prophets were to be found in the apostolic churches.

Once the book of Revelation was completed, and the apostles and prophets passed on, the spiritual gifts for ministry were (1) evangelists, (2) pastors, and (3) teachers. This is really quite simple. Therefore there is only a Three-Fold Ministry for the churches today.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
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#10
God would speak directly to the Prophets. Jesus spoke directly to the Apostles. The gifts of the Spirit were given because the Gospels nor the Epistles has been codified as of yet.
The thing is, I cannot find this line of reasoning in the Bible, and I have no reason to think that your theory is part of 'the faith once delivered to the saints' that Jude writes about.

It was not the belief of the early church, which recognized the gift prophecy as an ongoing thing.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
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#11
The passage which I am alluding to simply lists the spiritual gifts related to the ministry of the Word. At the time it was written, both apostles and prophets were to be found in the apostolic churches.

Once the book of Revelation was completed, and the apostles and prophets passed on, the spiritual gifts for ministry were (1) evangelists, (2) pastors, and (3) teachers. This is really quite simple. Therefore there is only a Three-Fold Ministry for the churches today.
Again, the burden of proof is on you to support your theory. I cannot find it in the Bible and the earliest Christians who lived after the 12 apostles died believed differently.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#12
God would speak directly to the Prophets. Jesus spoke directly to the Apostles. The gifts of the Spirit were given because the Gospels nor the Epistles has been codified as of yet.
God gave His revelation concerning man. There is no additional information He is proclaiming. We received His word(The Bible).

Anyone that makes the claim otherwise I would challenge. In all honesty a lot people either rely on wishful thinking or want to be something more.

I can see it now. Jesus explaining how the Holy Spirit was given to codify the Bible, but apparently the Holy Spirit could not decide on many things or we would not have so many differences

are you aware there were originally no verses or chapters in the Bible?

the Bible was not meant to be systematized or standardized

you leave the Holy Spirit out. the New Testament indicates the Holy Spirit is our Teacher, our Comforter, our Paraclete (like a lawyer), He sanctifies us, and He seals us for salvation among some of the things He does

do you think there are no more evangelists or teachers (actually chosen by God and not man...y'all seem to think the pope is pretty special :unsure:
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#13
Again, the burden of proof is on you to support your theory.
No. The burden of proof is on you to prove that there are GENUINE apostles and prophets today. And if you cannot do that, I rest my case.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#14
I am personally leery of people calling themselves Apostles today because of the way so many act, seeming to think they are privileged or special

I could support the definition here though:

Apostle' means 'sent one.' In Matthew 9, Jesus says to pray the Lord of the harvest to send forth laborers into His harvest. Then He prays all night, and chooses 12 of His disciples, calling them apostles. He sends them out telling them to heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, and cast out devils. He tells them to preach 'Repent for the kingdom of heaven as at hand' as they went into towns and villages. Mark first calls these sent ones 'apostles' after they return from their mission.

from presidentes' op...post 1

but that does not seem to be how so many define themself as an Apostle today. of course, others claim only those who have actually seen Jesus are the actual Apostles. which means some think Paul was not an Apostle...but he might have seen Jesus in the flesh but he certainly had a personal calling and saw Christ whether in a vision or heaven opened...I don't know

I am not sure if there are Apostles...but like I said, sent one, seems doable

as far as prophets go, there are no more OT type prophets. scripture is plain that the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets so no more lone ranger holed up in the desert with God

but yes, I do believe there are prophets but some confuse that with a word of knowledge

I am very conservative in what I believe about the gifts of the Spirit. so so much abuse in evidence...so many just accepting whatever goes on in church with 0 discernment.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
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#15
No. The burden of proof is on you to prove that there are GENUINE apostles and prophets today. And if you cannot do that, I rest my case.
It depends on our topic. This thread is about the doctrinal teaching of the scriptures on the topic, not who is an apostle or prophet. So the onus of proof is on you to show that the doctrinal teaching of scripture changed or is no longer applicable.

Can you show me where the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit will not speak to people except through the Bible?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
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#16
but that does not seem to be how so many define themself as an Apostle today. of course, others claim only those who have actually seen Jesus are the actual Apostles. which means some think Paul was not an Apostle...but he might have seen Jesus in the flesh but he certainly had a personal calling and saw Christ whether in a vision or heaven opened...I don't know
I agree that there are people who call themselves 'apostles' today who do not seem to bear much resemblance to what apostles are or did in scripture. I am wary of that sort of thing, too.

To replace Judas, one not only had to have seen the resurrection but also have been with them from the time of John the Baptist. Paul gave a list of reasons for why he deserved to live of the Gospel-- seeing the Lord, being an apostle, being free. He did not say one had to have seen Jesus to be an apostle. He used the term more broadly than that to refer to Silvanus and Timothy as apostles. We do not know if the apostles Barnabas and Silas saw Jesus before the ascension, but I think we can be pretty sure that Timothy did not. Would he have had to have been a toddler or younger if he was born yet? And when we see him first, he lived so far away up out of the holy land in southern Anatolia, in Biblical Galatia.

In scripture there were the twelve apostles. Then Matthias replaced Judas. Most of us know about Paul's apostleship. But the Bible also refers to other missionary types as apostles, Barnabas, Silas, Timothy. Paul seems to include Apollos who did some itinerant teaching and evangelistic type ministry. The word is also used to refer to those who delivered money from Corinth to Judea, so there are looser senses.

I see some missionaries missionaries as 'apostles' in a sense also. They aren't the twelve, of course.

Actually the word 'missionary' comes from a Latin word used to translate 'apostolos' in certain contexts. I do not think someone has to cross nation-state boundaries to minister as an apostle.

Historically, certain individuals who brought the gospel to unreached nations or regions were referred to as 'apostles'-- Gregory apostle to the Armenians, Patrick apostle of Ireland, Oscar/Angsar apostle to the north, Cyril and Methodius, apostle to the Bulgars, Slavs, etc.

as far as prophets go, there are no more OT type prophets. scripture is plain that the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets so no more lone ranger holed up in the desert with God

but yes, I do believe there are prophets but some confuse that with a word of knowledge
I am not sure I track with your line of reasoning. Couldn't any Christian be holed up in the desert for a while for a good reason and still have whatever spiritual gift God gave him?
 

Timothy5378

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
180
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#17
Everything in the NT can work just as it did then...its not P/C...its just the NY Bible...all 5 positions can still exist

The fact that people want to think they can't is they were taught that.

I'm not kidding...i have what Paul has and more now for...1 the whole Word is revealed...and 2 Paul died before it was complete...3 we can hold KJV in our hand and get all the books to understand the whole Bible....i choose to put the time to learn it all and do it...and I got there 10 years ago...people laid hands on me...the HS came over them and filled them and others all over the world independent if each other and they said the same thing....im true

God did it...and I'm happy He did make me this way....what I have works for anyone who wants it

The problem is people don't want all of God and His Word and to repent and obey..to live and love Jesus and others...to give all there money and time...this life...i live Christmas everyday giving
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#18
The thing is, I cannot find this line of reasoning in the Bible, and I have no reason to think that your theory is part of 'the faith once delivered to the saints' that Jude writes about.

It was not the belief of the early church, which recognized the gift prophecy as an ongoing thing.
1 Cor 13 claims that prophecy shall be done away. Tongues shall cease and knowledge shall vanish away.

NT revelation complete and the faith once delivered to the saints.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jan 4, 2020
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washburn Tn
#19
No. The burden of proof is on you to prove that there are GENUINE apostles and prophets today. And if you cannot do that, I rest my case.
ROMANs 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the Grace that is given to us . Whether Prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 1 COR 13:9 For we know in part, And we prophesy in part, 1 COR 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts , BUT rather that ye may prophesy, 1 COR 14:31 FOR ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 1 COR 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, REV 19:10 for the testimony of JESUS is the spirit of prophecy , There is people prophesying NOW today, I think when we see things in the BIBLE that going to happen, And we tell other people, Then we are prophesying, telling something that going to happen, by faith in what we read in GODs WORD.
GOD bless as HE sees fit
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#20
1 Cor 13 claims that prophecy shall be done away. Tongues shall cease and knowledge shall vanish away.

NT revelation complete and the faith once delivered to the saints.
This will happen when the perfect comes. The speech, thoughts, and understanding of Paul back when he was writing this book of the New Testament will be like a child's speech, thoughts and understanding. We will know fully as we are fully known. But now, we know in part.

Paul wrote to the Ephesians, that by reading this ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ. He does not say that by reading the scriptures they will no so much that he will seem like a baby in comparison. The Bible teaches us 'the faith once delivered to the saints', not the full perfection that Paul and the rest of the saints of God will experience at the resurrection of the dead

Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

I john 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.