Where in scripture are instructions to cancel the feasts?

[Nehemiah6]

i'd say it began before this. i'll give you two evidences for that position:

Hebrews 9:10 shows the connection between the end of the Old Covenant and the beginning of the New Covenant (which signifies the Time of Reformation). But until the crucifixion the Law of Moses was fully in effect.

In any event, the feasts of the LORD cannot be observed without the temple and the Levitical priesthood. And God will reject any sham observation. Indeed to revive the feasts means to REJECT the finished work of Christ. That is what unbelieving Jews do, not believing Christians.

 

[Judges1318]

well it was functionally over with before it ever began, because, Proverbs 18:13 isn't heeded: conservatives show tremendous partiality.

totally agree with your application of 2 Tim. 2:4 -- our citizenship is in heaven.

i do think as a nation we have exactly the president we deserve. the nation is by-and-large two parts, both wicked: one part vain & hypocritical, and another part vain & lascivious. the blues neglect to love the Lord and the reds neglect to love their neighbour. every worldly leader serves worldly interests, and the next worldly leader this nation gets will also be exactly the appropriate one -- regardless of who it is, the 'other side' will gripe and moan and forget all about how they complained of the very same things being done by their opposing worldly party either 4 or 8 years ago. for 8 years the GOP wanted to impeach mr. Obama for whatever reason they can find, and now the DNC wants to do the same thing to mr. Trump, and next rotation the GOP will try to do exactly the same thing to whoever takes the worldly seat of power next, and the DNC will act as though it's unheard of, just like the GOP acts now.

getting involved in all these worldly politics is a disease, especially gregarious when one thinks it's God they are serving by doing so.

I don't know how to vote on your post, so I didn't.
I agree with some of these thing, and not others.
But largely agree.
The important thing is to submit to whatever the Lord allows, like he told the Israelites to do when they were turned over to the slavery of their enemies. He did not tell them to resist it but to go with it. It was serving the Lord's purpose.

 

[Judges1318]

Indeed to revive the feasts means to REJECT the finished work of Christ.

It doesn't have to mean that.
Really.
I think it quite appropriate to commemorate Christ our Passover Lamb, for example, on......well.......Passover!

I've heard many wonderful testimonies of Christians who worship Christ in the framework of the old covenant types and shadows with joy and gladness, and quite frankly I have shared their joy because I too can see the reality in those types. I'm remembering one testimony in particular right now and I'm welling up with tears of joy at the thought of genuinely worshiping God that way. For the most part our churches do not have this joy of worship and cognizance of God in them. They are sterile and liturgical and devoid of substance. Devoid of the Spirit, really.

So, don't think it impossible that a believer could sit in a booth, or sweep the corners of his house clean all the while filled with the inexpressible joy of the reality they now possess that those types represented. I do see the danger of slipping into the legalism of doing them just the right way, though. That will most certainly suppress the joy of the Lord in those observances, IMO. There was no reason to shift the schedule of our worship of Christ away from they types and shadows. A little history check will show the Catholics did that, not God.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

It doesn't have to mean that.
Really.
I think it quite appropriate to commemorate Christ our Passover Lamb, for example, on......well.......Passover!

I've heard many wonderful testimonies of Christians who worship Christ in the framework of the old covenant types and shadows with joy and gladness, and quite frankly I have shared their joy because I too can see the reality in those types. I'm remembering one testimony in particular right now and I'm welling up with tears of joy at the thought of genuinely worshiping God that way. For the most part our churches do not have this joy of worship and cognizance of God in them. They are sterile and liturgical and devoid of substance. Devoid of the Spirit, really.

So, don't think it impossible that a believer could sit in a booth, or sweep the corners of his house clean all the while filled with the inexpressible joy of the reality they now possess that those types represented. I do see the danger of slipping into the legalism of doing them just the right way, though. That will most certainly suppress the joy of the Lord in those observances, IMO. There was no reason to shift the schedule of our worship of Christ away from they types and shadows. A little history check will show the Catholics did that, not God.

There are some Messianic Christians that observe Sabbath and Festivals without any thought of accusing non-observers.

On the other hand, I think the vast majority of Hebrew Roots types actually do think other Christians are sinning by non-observance.

My position would be that they aren't observing the Festivals in the biblical manner to start with, as there was a requirement for all males to attend in Jerusalem per Deuteronomy 16:16. Virtually none of them go to Jerusalem, but they observe them in some non-biblical way and claim that's acceptable to God. One woman I know simply pitched a tent for the Feast of Tabernacles one year in Australia and thinks that's observing the Feast. The Law required building a Sukkot of specific materials available in Israel, AND living in this Sukkot for the 7-8 days...few really do that.

By the way, they would call me a "legalist" for pointing out their omissions, all the while believing that they are the true worshipers of God due to their observances

Their response would be that they don't need to attend in Jerusalem, and they don't need to build a Sukkot using the Scripturally defined materials. However, that's not the way the Law was written.

I don't think it's bad to observe these days without judging others, but that isn't what happens. I'd bet $100 that the original poster believes non-observers are sinning by their non-observance, and many think non-observers are not even saved, and are under the Mark of the Beast. I know that's what I thought as an observer.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...but they observe them in some non-biblical way and claim that's acceptable to God.

That is EXACTLY my point. The instructions in Leviticus are crystal clear, and they must be observed to the letter. Which means there must either be a tabernacle on earth or the temple at Jerusalem. There must also be an actual Levitical priesthood in place. And all the necessary animal (and other) sacrifices must be made exactly as specified.

So all this talk about honoring Christ through the feasts is BOGUS, since it dishonors Christ whenever people resort to Moses instead of Christ.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the Covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:28,29)

The "blood of the Covenant" is the blood of Christ which ratified the New Covenant. And when that blood was shed THE OLD COVENANT WAS ABOLISHED. And all the feasts were also abolished at the same time.

 

[Judges1318]

On the other hand, I think the vast majority of Hebrew Roots types actually do think other Christians are sinning by non-observance.

Oh, yeah, I agree completely.
But I understand why.

My position would be that they aren't observing the Festivals in the biblical manner to start with, as there was a requirement for all males to attend in Jerusalem per Deuteronomy 16:16. Virtually none of them go to Jerusalem, but they observe them in some non-biblical way and claim that's acceptable to God. One woman I know simply pitched a tent for the Feast of Tabernacles one year in Australia and thinks that's observing the Feast. The Law required building a Sukkot of specific materials available in Israel, AND living in this Sukkot for the 7-8 days...few really do that.

Don't be guilty of the same legalistic thinking many of them are guilty of. Instead of insisting on their legalistic correctness, I would rather hear you tell them they don't need to be so legalistic about the exact procedures and conditions for keeping the feasts. But, yes, I agree that they don't recognize their own hypocrisy in regard to the letter of the law they accuse us of not acknowledging.

An interesting point about the Feast of Tabernacles, I think the law says living in booths is exclusively for the native born Israelite.
Oops, there I go playing the same legalistic game we don't like them playing. But you get the point. I honestly think you could erect a booth, sit in for a while thinking about how we are tabernacled in Christ and worship God with praise and thanksgiving from the heart doing it. And, using it as a teaching tool to illustrate to your kids the spiritual truth it represents. I wish I could sit here now, the Father of four grown kids who talk about when they were growing up how dad taught them the spiritual truth of the booth in the back yard he erected every year. Not in a pathetic legalistic, almost angry way, but with joy and gladness and peace.

By the way, they would call me a "legalist" for pointing out their omissions, all the while believing that they are the true worshipers of God due to their observances

Lol, that's what I was getting at. I don't think it valuable to point out a person's legalism by correcting their legalism.

Their response would be that they don't need to attend in Jerusalem, and they don't need to build a Sukkot using the Scripturally defined materials.

And I would agree with them.
But at the same time, if they're going to loosen up they should just loosen up the rest of the way and enjoy the experience.

I don't think it's bad to observe these days without judging others, but that isn't what happens.

I'm glad to hear you say that.
I guess like any movement in the church, you have the few who 'get it' mingling among the many
I've talked to several of them on-line. They do exist. And they bless me.
But I confess, it is the majority that keeps me from thinking about worshiping in a Messianic church. But that's pretty much true of any church right now, lol. I want the real thing at the core of the church without the stuff around it.

I'd bet $100 that the original poster believes non-observers are sinning by their non-observance, and many think non-observers are not even saved, and are under the Mark of the Beast. I know that's what I thought as an observer.

I don't make bad bets, lol.
But, like say, I understand why they think it's a sin not to be observant. I get it.

I even understand the part about us not being saved....to a point, anyway.

Now the Mark of the Beast thing.
I don't give a lot of room for that thinking in the church.

 

[posthuman]

I don't know how to vote on your post, so I didn't.
I agree with some of these thing, and not others.
But largely agree.
The important thing is to submit to whatever the Lord allows, like he told the Israelites to do when they were turned over to the slavery of their enemies. He did not tell them to resist it but to go with it. It was serving the Lord's purpose.

I felt the same way about your post
A few quibbles but we're basically agreed

 

[posthuman]

That is EXACTLY my point. The instructions in Leviticus are crystal clear, and they must be observed to the letter. Which means there must either be a tabernacle on earth or the temple at Jerusalem. There must also be an actual Levitical priesthood in place. And all the necessary animal (and other) sacrifices must be made exactly as specified.

So all this talk about honoring Christ through the feasts is BOGUS, since it dishonors Christ whenever people resort to Moses instead of Christ.

Spot on

So i cannot say I follow the law. I can say I follow the righteousness of the law, if I am able that is, but the law itself, no. praise God that we are made free! Without Christ we would be utterly hopeless, having to depend on a law that's impossible for us to fulfill!

I wouldn't say it's wrong to make a semblance of keeping the feasts - nor that anyone ought to be judged for failure to, of course. do this to God and we do well. Unto God, do not do, and it is also well. But I would say it's wrong to think of it as though we're actually keeping the law.

 

[posthuman]

I don't think it's bad to observe these days without judging others, but that isn't what happens. I'd bet $100 that the original poster believes non-observers are sinning by their non-observance, and many think non-observers are not even saved, and are under the Mark of the Beast. I know that's what I thought as an observer.

i think Blik gets a worse reception than she deserves. i think she really makes posts like this, and says what she does, because she wants to honor God, and she wants to spur us to do so too. it's just my opinion - and i hope it's not offensive to her - that her understanding of what the believer's relationship to the law is, isn't as enlightened as it could be. of course i believe that's the case with all of us, that we are dimmer than we ought to be. and i think this is why the apostle wrote to us, that we should soberly look at ourselves and ask who are we to judge another man's servant? one observes a day, and one doesn't - and both the one that observes the day and the one that doesn't do so to the Lord. it's to the Lord that the servant is beholden to, not to us. i'm not qualified to say this is some kind of matter of maturity in each individual -- the fact that Paul would write such a thing tells me, and the Spirit agrees, that it is the heart, not the physical observance or neglect, which is judged and which proves the faith of the soul.

as i would say with sabbath i would say with the feasts - no one should be judging one another over these things; whether judging for observing or judging for failing to observe. that's the clear message i read in Colossians, and that is in fact a matter of maturity: whether we think to measure each other by such things, and sit as judge.

 

[Blik]

That's nonsense. When the Bible says that the Old Covenant is ABOLISHED -- rendered null and void -- it means God cancelled the feasts. And I did give you the Scripture. But I will add more Scripture. Not that you will give heed to it, but so that you cannot lie about it.

THIS WAS WRITTEN BEFORE THE TEMPLE WAS DESTROYED
In that He [GOD] saith, A New Covenant, He [GOD] hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

Did you to get that? It is God who established the New Covenant through Christ, and because of that He made the first Covenant "old". And because it is old and decaying, becoming older day by day, IT IS READY TO VANISH AWAY. Disappear. Become null and void. Become obsolete. Become cancelled. And when the temple was destroyed, that was the end of the Levitical priesthood, the sacrifices, and the feasts. But of of course, you are smarter than God.

THE OLD COVENANT WAS DEFICIENT, WOULD LAST ONLY UNTIL THE TIME OF REFORMATION
[The Old Covenant]Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until The Time of Reformation*. (Heb 9:10)

Do you know the meaning of "Time Time of Reformation"? Do you understand that the Time of Reformation began the day Christ died on the cross? Do you know why the veil in the temple was torn in two, bringing an end to temple worship? Do you know that without the temple, there cannot be any proper, correct, biblical, observation of the feasts? Do you even know why the book of Hebrews was written and how it related to the end of the Old Covenant?

*Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1357: διόρθωσιςδιόρθωσις,διορθώσεως, ἡ (from διορθόω);
2. of acts and institutions, reformation: καιρόςδιορθώσεως a season of reformation, or the perfecting of things, referring to the times of the Messiah, Hebrews 9:10. (Aristotle, Pol. 3, 1, 4 (p. 1275{b}, 13); νόμου, de mund. 6, p. 400{b}, 29; (cf. Josephus, contra Apion 2, 20, 2); Polybius 3, 118, 12 τῶν πολιτευματων, Diodorus 1, 75 τῶνἁμαρτημάτων, Josephus, Antiquities 2, 4, 4; b. j. 1, 20, 1; others; (cf. Lob. ad Phryn., p. 250f).)

In the first place when God gave us the new covenant, that covenant did NOT say God cancelled the feasts. Read it again.

And smarty remarks like "are you smarter than God" is uncalled for, I am quoting God only!

You are putting words in God's mouth, telling HIM what he says as if you owned and controlled God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In the first place when God gave us the new covenant, that covenant did NOT say God cancelled the feasts. Read it again.

YOU ARE TOTALLY CLUELESS ABOUT BOTH COVENANTS. AND THAT IS VERY SAD.

However, why don't you read this again?
2 CORINTHIANS 3
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament [COVENANT] not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS?]
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. [DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS?]
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS?]
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament [COVENANT]; which vail is done away in Christ. [DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS?]
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there isliberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[Ahwatukee]

In the first place when God gave us the new covenant, that covenant did NOT say God cancelled the feasts. Read it again.

And smarty remarks like "are you smarter than God" is uncalled for, I am quoting God only!

You are putting words in God's mouth, telling HIM what he says as if you owned and controlled God.

Blik, the bottom line is that believers are not saved by keeping feasts or the Sabbath or any of the other 600 plus laws. We are saved by trusting in Christ who paid the penalty for our sins.

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."

Therefore, anyone who is attempting to obtain salvation by keeping feasts or Sabbaths, or by keeping any of the other 600 laws, then Christ will be of no value of them. And yes, keeping the feasts was apart of the law.

All you are doing by your teaching to keep the law, is undermining the gospel.

Christ freed us from the curse of law which condemned us and that because we could not meet the laws righteous requirements. Jesus met the righteous requirements of the law on behalf of all believers. Why are you now trying to gain favor with God by your own efforts?

 

[garee]

In the first place when God gave us the new covenant, that covenant did NOT say God cancelled the feasts. Read it again.

And smarty remarks like "are you smarter than God" is uncalled for, I am quoting God only!

You are putting words in God's mouth, telling HIM what he says as if you owned and controlled God.

He fulfilled those shadows. Some Jews worshipped shadows as they do today

The Holy Spirit added a new one using two to represent the one reformed order. The reformation came 2 thousand of years ago. .

 

[Blik]

Blik, the bottom line is that believers are not saved by keeping feasts or the Sabbath or any of the other 600 plus laws. We are saved by trusting in Christ who paid the penalty for our sins.

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."

Therefore, anyone who is attempting to obtain salvation by keeping feasts or Sabbaths, or by keeping any of the other 600 laws, then Christ will be of no value of them. And yes, keeping the feasts was apart of the law.

All you are doing by your teaching to keep the law, is undermining the gospel.

Christ freed us from the curse of law which condemned us and that because we could not meet the laws righteous requirements. Jesus met the righteous requirements of the law on behalf of all believers. Why are you now trying to gain favor with God by your own efforts?

Do you actually obey God's laws in order to be saved? If that is your reason you are going down a blind alley. We are saved through our faith, not our obedience. We obey because we have Christ n our hearts.

 

[Blik]

He fulfilled those shadows. Some Jews worshipped shadows as they do today

The Holy Spirit added a new one using two to represent the one reformed order. The reformation came 2 thousand of years ago. .

I don't see any relationship to answering the question of whether God still wants us to honor the feasts and the way God communicates with us, as the new covenant is about. Before God related to man through what fleshly things he did to remind him of the spiritual laws, now God communicates with us through the Holy Spirit. We still are commanded to pray to the Father in the manner of the Lord's prayer, and honestly I can't find a reason in scripture to think that God would not like us to praise Him with the feasts God told us of. I have read all the reasons people think that God wants us to treat it like God wants us to treat fleshly circumcision and considered, seriously,each reason but I haven't found a reason that seems to agree with scripture in all these.

 

[posthuman]

I don't see any relationship to answering the question of whether God still wants us to honor the feasts and the way God communicates with us, as the new covenant is about. Before God related to man through what fleshly things he did to remind him of the spiritual laws, now God communicates with us through the Holy Spirit. We still are commanded to pray to the Father in the manner of the Lord's prayer, and honestly I can't find a reason in scripture to think that God would not like us to praise Him with the feasts God told us of. I have read all the reasons people think that God wants us to treat it like God wants us to treat fleshly circumcision and considered, seriously,each reason but I haven't found a reason that seems to agree with scripture in all these.

how do you keep Yom Kippur without two goats?

the Jews light candles, fast & pray, and reflect on their sins.

these are good things, but they're not keeping the law. the law is specific. the Jew - who depends on Moses to be justified - is condemned without remedy outside of Christ.
i don't see any problem with doing such things - i think it's good that we do such things; i think it is right we should do such things, and i think it's good that we remember the feasts and recognize what they are. i just don't think it's good to command them to all believers as though law, and not good to think that we are keeping the law by not at all doing the things the law literally commands as observance of the feasts. i think, keeping the righteousness of the law, and keeping the law, are different. a person could do either without doing the other, and we're plainly not under the law: in the new covenant, we are free - though righteousness does not change.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

In the first place when God gave us the new covenant, that covenant did NOT say God cancelled the feasts. Read it again.

And smarty remarks like "are you smarter than God" is uncalled for, I am quoting God only!

You are putting words in God's mouth, telling HIM what he says as if you owned and controlled God.

You’re right. It isn’t just the feasts and Sabbath and clean meat laws. It’s all the non moral aspects of the Mosaic Covenant.


All are done away with.

I have no more sensitivity to observance of days than failing to be physically circumcised.

What day do you observe? Is like going around asking men if they are circumcised or not.

For those who claim the Mosaic Law is still in effect:

Romans 7:1-6
Ephesians 2:13-15
Hebrews 7,8
Galatians 3,4
Acts 15

Those are just the ones I can think of, off the top of my head.

 

[posthuman]

Do you actually obey God's laws in order to be saved? If that is your reason you are going down a blind alley. We are saved through our faith, not our obedience. We obey because we have Christ n our hearts.

wouldn't it be great if we were all mature enough in the Lord to talk about Leviticus without having accusations of trying to be justified by the law, or arguments about not being under the law having to be thrown around?

♥

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You’re right. It isn’t just the feasts and Sabbath and clean meat laws. It’s all the non moral aspects of the Mosaic Covenant.


All are done away with.

I have no more sensitivity to observance of days than failing to be physically circumcised.

What day do you observe? Is like going around asking men if they are circumcised or not.

For those who claim the Mosaic Law is still in effect:

Romans 7:1-6
Ephesians 2:13-15
Hebrews 7,8
Galatians 3,4
Acts 15

Those are just the ones I can think of, off the top of my head.

By the way if a person is a Judaizer, Paul instructed the Corinthian church to kick them out of the Church in Galatians 4. The trick is determining whether someone is salvageable or not. If they are so contentious and trying to drag other believers into error, they are to be kicked out. Some Galatians were deceived true believers while others were false teachers.

 

[Whispered]

I think people may have less stress if they actually read what people post concerning the feasts. More than once it has been stated that the feasts do not save.
So while people who may choose to observe the feasts, I'd say likely Messianics among us, that's their prerogative. They know the observation does not save. Offsetting someone's view concerning their observance of the feasts, or saying there's nothing wrong with doing so, by interjecting the feasts do not save and it is not of God, is a red herring. And doesn't make a valid point at all but to be just that; a red herring.

Calling people Legalists is just more name calling here. Which is ongoing and always pitiful. However, the one of few that get really heated in their understanding of someone being a legalist and then rebuking them likely don't realize that it is they that appear as the new legalists. "YOU CAN'T DO THAT! Here's why...."
Maybe they don't realize it. Maybe now they will and shall calm down a bit. Unless they think they need to defend God's words in that way, like those who are incredibly offensive in that pursuit and then claim they're behaving just like Jesus did. Blasphemy of course, since when people here laugh that God would need a woman to do His will, likely the offensive types don't realize God doesn't need them to defend Him, His word, or His truth. But acting like the devil in doing so isn't pleasing to Him in the least. Acting contrary to Jesus' teachings while trying to defend Jesus' teachings is not a good look for one who claims His name.