Why was the Rich man in Hades?
- Thread starter Chris1975
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The Bible shows this by the 100s of prophecies that point to Jesus. All the saints had future events to look to and believe in faith that by their current submission, God would hold to his promises. Here is atleast 100 starting in Genesis of prophecies related to a coming Messiah. http://www.about-jesus.org/complete-chart-prophecies-jesus.htm
Other sites list more. But the point is from the beginning of time God already had a plan and as soon as mankind fell, that plan went into action.
Why obey a God if they didn't believe and have faith in that God? They obeyed because they believed in their God and trusted their God enough, to have faith in the things unseen or not understood. Submission came from faith.
They who? All of the Jewish people? Not all rejected Jesus. Many did especially at first, but not all. Even more came to belief after the event of the resurrection. Acts speaks multiple times on Pharisees and Sadducees that came to faith.
The Jewish culture had been taught by Jewish leaders that all those prophecies pointed to a coming Messiah that would return as King and build His Kingdom on Earth. But the top leaders was also corrupt and wanted power more than a Messiah. So they tried to shut Jesus down. Also at the time so called religious leaders who claimed to be the Messiah rose up and started rebellions before Jesus had even entered the scene. The rebellions of course was stomped out and the so called Messiah killed. Which was another element to why they wanted Jesus dead. They didn't want any drama and riots during their Holy festivals on the week of passover.
Obviously Jesus's disciples did believe or else we wouldn't have Christianity today. They from the beginning saw the fulfillment of prophecy and followed Jesus as the Messiah. Peter at one time proved to understand who Jesus truly was as the Messiah but also Son of God. John the Baptist had prepared many for the arrival of Jesus. Confusion doesn't mean they disbelieved.
Other sites list more. But the point is from the beginning of time God already had a plan and as soon as mankind fell, that plan went into action.
Why obey a God if they didn't believe and have faith in that God? They obeyed because they believed in their God and trusted their God enough, to have faith in the things unseen or not understood. Submission came from faith.
They who? All of the Jewish people? Not all rejected Jesus. Many did especially at first, but not all. Even more came to belief after the event of the resurrection. Acts speaks multiple times on Pharisees and Sadducees that came to faith.
The Jewish culture had been taught by Jewish leaders that all those prophecies pointed to a coming Messiah that would return as King and build His Kingdom on Earth. But the top leaders was also corrupt and wanted power more than a Messiah. So they tried to shut Jesus down. Also at the time so called religious leaders who claimed to be the Messiah rose up and started rebellions before Jesus had even entered the scene. The rebellions of course was stomped out and the so called Messiah killed. Which was another element to why they wanted Jesus dead. They didn't want any drama and riots during their Holy festivals on the week of passover.
Obviously Jesus's disciples did believe or else we wouldn't have Christianity today. They from the beginning saw the fulfillment of prophecy and followed Jesus as the Messiah. Peter at one time proved to understand who Jesus truly was as the Messiah but also Son of God. John the Baptist had prepared many for the arrival of Jesus. Confusion doesn't mean they disbelieved.
Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Isaiah 53 and psalm 22 is eerily familiar when seeing the events in the OT. Again just because they was confused on the events doesn't neglect prophecies that all point to a coming Messiah, who would die, be raised, and will return again. That is how prophecy is, we never know all the details. Many Christians today disagree on the events of Revelation. Doesn't make the scriptures any less real.
Not really seeing where you are going with this? Or what are you trying to prove? A legalistic system of OT saints? Or something else?
Not really seeing where you are going with this? Or what are you trying to prove? A legalistic system of OT saints? Or something else?
Again the ways of God cannot be fully understood. The saints can hear or read the prophecies and words of God to understand a glimpse of what is to come. But when it comes, much of the details are a mystery. Regardless though, we will know enough because even Jesus said.
John 10:27 New International Version (NIV)
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
No one knew of Jesus Christ because for obvious reasons. He wasn't born yet. But as he began his ministry, the sheep who was truly following God saw the fulfillment of scripture in Jesus and followed him.
John 10:27 New International Version (NIV)
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
No one knew of Jesus Christ because for obvious reasons. He wasn't born yet. But as he began his ministry, the sheep who was truly following God saw the fulfillment of scripture in Jesus and followed him.
Lots of good stuff in this thread .. Here's a thought .. So through Adam we all die to the Father .. We become like gods in that we have power to regard God or not knowing good and evil .. Through Eve who was deceived in the transgression would become the mother of all the living we can make amends through Jesus the Son and our freewill choice .. The nature of the same one God and right for either condemnation or redemption .. Not by works but restoration by faith in the Lamb of God to come and His once for all work on the cross .. From Adam on down Enos, Noah, God has always had messengers to preach righteousness and warn men about repentance, death and hell .. The rich man did not listen and chose his own way ..
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Hello watchman!
Abraham and Lazarus were not in the heavenly realms. The scripture specifically states, that the angels came and took Lazaruz (his spirit) to be at Abraham's side. Therefore, the fact that the rich man could see and speak with Abraham demonstrates that they were in the same location. The difference between the two areas was that on the side that Abraham, Lazarus and the rest of the OT saints were, was a place of comfort/paradise. On the other side was the place of torment in flame, with both areas divided by a great chasm.
Because of the word paradise, people automatically interpret that as being heaven. However, and as I have said previously, it is important not to pigeonhole words. In this case people are doing it to the word paradise.
To be clear, Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were all in the same location under the earth (sheol/Hades), one side of the chasm being a place of comfort/paradise and the other side being a place of torment in flame.
Abraham and Lazarus were not in the heavenly realms. The scripture specifically states, that the angels came and took Lazaruz (his spirit) to be at Abraham's side. Therefore, the fact that the rich man could see and speak with Abraham demonstrates that they were in the same location. The difference between the two areas was that on the side that Abraham, Lazarus and the rest of the OT saints were, was a place of comfort/paradise. On the other side was the place of torment in flame, with both areas divided by a great chasm.
Because of the word paradise, people automatically interpret that as being heaven. However, and as I have said previously, it is important not to pigeonhole words. In this case people are doing it to the word paradise.
To be clear, Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were all in the same location under the earth (sheol/Hades), one side of the chasm being a place of comfort/paradise and the other side being a place of torment in flame.
-
1
- Show all
According to that parable The scripture specifically states, that the lying angels came and took Lazarus (his spirit) to be at Abraham's side as a form of necromancy . Jesus said that was not possible . Dead Lazarus was asleep like all the saints that perish under the Sun.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which "would pass" from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Luke 16:26
Because the rich man had no faith by which he could believe God.He did not hear the warning above .But insisted again he send Lazarus as a worker with a familiar spirit called legion .(many) .
Jesus informs him if they will not hear the gospel through the law and the prophets, the two witnesses of God (sola scriptura) Then they would not believe even if someone could be awaken saints from their sleep and usurp the one manner we can seek after the unseen Holy Spirit. our Father in heaven .Who alone knows what we need before we ask .
Twice to emphasize those who refuse to hear the gospel
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent .And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.Luke 16 29-31
Mathew 6: 8-9 Be not ye therefore like unto them: (the rich man) for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. . . . . . . . (not names plural like "lazraus" in whom the rich man was venerating.)
Not our legion (patron saints) that we venerate or hallow as many gods in the likeness of men . (3500 and rising in Rome).
