Health, Wealth & Prosperity

[Nehemiah6]

Does God want us to prosper and to be in good health? How can we understand Moses when he tells us that God's desire is for us to prosper?

Well why go to Moses when the apostle John said this (which could be taken as a general principle): Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. (3 John 2)

As we can see, the prosperity of the soul and spirit come first. But health and wealth are not excluded, provided the wealth is used for the Gospel and the Kingdom of God, not for selfish reasons or self-aggrandizement.

And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness*; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. (Lk 16:9)

*worldly wealth

 

[JohnR7]

Well why go to Moses when the apostle John said this

It is always best to go back to the beginning. Things tend to get complicated over time So we can see how things develop.

 

[Guojing]

It is always best to go back to the beginning. Things tend to get complicated over time So we can see how things develop.

Under the law of Moses, God will bless you with health and finances only if you keep all of the law ( Deuteronomy 28)

 

[JohnR7]

Under the law of Moses, God will bless you with health and finances only if you keep all of the law ( Deuteronomy 28)

Jesus teaches that we will have rewards & treasures in Heaven. The advantage to this is that we are known in Heaven because our rewards are showing up there. People can go visit our mansion to see what the latest additions are there. Perhaps this is what Paul was talking about when he said: "we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses" (Hebrew 12:1)

 

[Guojing]

Jesus teaches that we will have rewards & treasures in Heaven. The advantage to this is that we are known in Heaven because our rewards are showing up there. People can go visit our mansion to see what the latest additions are there. Perhaps this is what Paul was talking about when he said: "we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses" (Hebrew 12:1)

True, but in heaven, no one gets sick. Physical healing is only needed for our time on earth.

 

[know1]

I don't think any discerning Christians would affirm the soundness of the above individuals. Pentecostals/ Charismatics/Word of Faith individuals are about the only ones who affirm these sorts of guys.

I don't even need to argue the point.

That's because you CAN'T, and apparently you can't handle the truth either.
All I hear is hate, hate, hate, doubt, unbelief, and division.
Jesus left us an example of how to pray, and one of those verses, He makes the following statement.
"Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven."
Is there any poor in heaven?
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Is there any sick in heaven?
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Will God give us our heart's desires in heaven?
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, HOW MUCH MORE shall your Father, which in heaven, GIVE GOOD THINGS, to them [HIS CHILDREN ON EARTH] that ask?"
The simple logic here is, if it is God's will in heaven, then it is His will for you hear on earth.
Again, it is not evil nor is it a sin, to want good things for your family, to have wealth, good health, be healed of sicknesses, diseases, and infirmities, be delivered from addictions, and the like. These are the very things Jesus came to do for us.
To destroy the works of the god of this world in our lives, instead of telling someone, it's God's will for you to suffer for Christ, with a wasting disease. Simply because they have absolutely NO FAITH for God to heal, and for the sake of having a form of godliness, which is a deception, but denying the power of God to operate.
If we can restrict the hand of God through our unbelief, then we can do the opposite by our faith.
The ONLY THING that PLEASES GOD.
Stop fighting the truth of God's word and start believing the whole gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[know1]

Joyce Meyer

By the way..here's a good example of this nonsense...she claims Jesus went to hell after the Cross and Satan/the demons hopped on his back and were beating the crap out of him.

What was her source?

A revelation.

Copeland believes something similar..so do most Word of Faithers.

And, they claim Jesus was "born again" in hell.

Crazy.

He said on the Cross..it is FINISHED. He didn't need to go to hell and be beaten by demons.

Yet, gullible people will still believe these guys and their nonsense.

Sooooooooo, what's that have to do with the price of beans?
I can find fault with your gossiping and lack of faith in God and His word, but how does that help others, or you, for that matter?
Again, sowing hate, condemnation, and division in the church, against those who do not believe as you do. That is a BAD thing to do, and is sinful in the eyes of God.
I would suggest you start examining your own heart to see if it is right before God, that you not be found a hypocrite.

 

[wolfwint]

Sooooooooo, what's that have to do with the price of beans?
I can find fault with your gossiping and lack of faith in God and His word, but how does that help others, or you, for that matter?
Again, sowing hate, condemnation, and division in the church, against those who do not believe as you do. That is a BAD thing to do, and is sinful in the eyes of God.
I would suggest you start examining your own heart to see if it is right before God, that you not be found a hypocrite.

To inform ore criticise about false teachings has nothing to do with divide churches, so far.
Only if it the question to leave a church which spreads false teachings.

I wonder that believers following such spreaders of false teachings like the above mentioned. Maby because they sounds exciting and new? Anyway they have to stand before the Lord for this. Sad for all the believers who believe and be deceived through such false teachings.

 

[wolfwint]

That's because you CAN'T, and apparently you can't handle the truth either.
All I hear is hate, hate, hate, doubt, unbelief, and division.
Jesus left us an example of how to pray, and one of those verses, He makes the following statement.
"Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven."
Is there any poor in heaven?
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Is there any sick in heaven?
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Will God give us our heart's desires in heaven?
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, HOW MUCH MORE shall your Father, which in heaven, GIVE GOOD THINGS, to them [HIS CHILDREN ON EARTH] that ask?"
The simple logic here is, if it is God's will in heaven, then it is His will for you hear on earth.
Again, it is not evil nor is it a sin, to want good things for your family, to have wealth, good health, be healed of sicknesses, diseases, and infirmities, be delivered from addictions, and the like. These are the very things Jesus came to do for us.
To destroy the works of the god of this world in our lives, instead of telling someone, it's God's will for you to suffer for Christ, with a wasting disease. Simply because they have absolutely NO FAITH for God to heal, and for the sake of having a form of godliness, which is a deception, but denying the power of God to operate.
If we can restrict the hand of God through our unbelief, then we can do the opposite by our faith.
The ONLY THING that PLEASES GOD.
Stop fighting the truth of God's word and start believing the whole gospel of Jesus Christ.

Sorry, can it be, that you ignore that all people which Jesus healed ore took to life, later died? His purpose to heal and do the miracles were to proof that he was the Son of God. And to make the way free to the father for all who trust in Him according the scripture said. To claim that we will lieve here on earth in our sinful body in the same way like we will do in our new body are a hopeless wish and nothing what God promissed. And the reality shows it us. We all carry sickness in our body. Some of us will die because of old age ( unbelievers too) but the most of us will die because of sickness.
Even when they before healed from God from any disease.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Sooooooooo, what's that have to do with the price of beans?
I can find fault with your gossiping and lack of faith in God and His word, but how does that help others, or you, for that matter?
Again, sowing hate, condemnation, and division in the church, against those who do not believe as you do. That is a BAD thing to do, and is sinful in the eyes of God.
I would suggest you start examining your own heart to see if it is right before God, that you not be found a hypocrite.

The teachers I have mentioned are false teachers. And, the community I am criticizing follows people like them.

In a postmodern environment, I suppose "that's your truth..I have my truth" is an accepted axiom. I don't accept this axiom.

Additionally, I don't lack faith in God and his word. I lack faith in charismatic nonsense and their claims related to it.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

That's because you CAN'T, and apparently you can't handle the truth either.
All I hear is hate, hate, hate, doubt, unbelief, and division.
Jesus left us an example of how to pray, and one of those verses, He makes the following statement.
"Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven."
Is there any poor in heaven?
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Is there any sick in heaven?
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Will God give us our heart's desires in heaven?
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, HOW MUCH MORE shall your Father, which in heaven, GIVE GOOD THINGS, to them [HIS CHILDREN ON EARTH] that ask?"
The simple logic here is, if it is God's will in heaven, then it is His will for you hear on earth.
Again, it is not evil nor is it a sin, to want good things for your family, to have wealth, good health, be healed of sicknesses, diseases, and infirmities, be delivered from addictions, and the like. These are the very things Jesus came to do for us.
To destroy the works of the god of this world in our lives, instead of telling someone, it's God's will for you to suffer for Christ, with a wasting disease. Simply because they have absolutely NO FAITH for God to heal, and for the sake of having a form of godliness, which is a deception, but denying the power of God to operate.
If we can restrict the hand of God through our unbelief, then we can do the opposite by our faith.
The ONLY THING that PLEASES GOD.
Stop fighting the truth of God's word and start believing the whole gospel of Jesus Christ.

Notice the claim, folks. The reason those who continue in their infirmities is because they lack faith.

Their god is a god who cannot heal someone who is in doubt, and has little sympathy for them, because their condition is their fault.

Additionally, I would like to note that I do believe God gives good things. But, what is good? Is it good that God allows his children to suffer in order to deepen their desire for his kingdom? Of course it is, but in the charismatic/Word of Faith/Pentecostal worldview, they are so shallow and superficial and juvenile that they cannot see this.

By the way, I never said it was wrong to pray for healing. If God doesn't answer by healing the person, does that mean that they don't have enough faith? Of course not. It requires faith to suffer and still continue to praise Job.

And I don't think these types of guys have read Job or Hebrews 11 or James 1 or the whole book of Psalms, which find people suffering in faith.

Instead, they would prefer to hear Kenneth Copeland yelling "MONNNNNEEEEYYYY....COME TO ME". Or listen to dingbats like Joyce Meyer claiming Jesus was stomped on in hell by the demons...

By the way, there is a value in the continuing protest of Christians in regards to these false teachings. It informs seekers that not all Christians are loons, and those that are loons may not be real Christians.

I highly recommend Costi Hinn's two books, as well as his numerous Youtube videos, for an insiders' view of the falseness of this religion. He is the nephew of Benny Hinn, and is now an evangelical Christian.

Benny Hinn..now there's another one..he claimed in 1994, I believe, that funeral homes were going to put TV sets in their funeral parlors so that the dead could hear his messages and be resurrected.

Laughable.

And, it isn't rumors because these guys are foolish enough to make public statements. The facts are in print, audio and video recordings for anyone who wants to research them.

Here's one that includes the Jesus in Hell thing:

Well, I will acknowledge one thing..it's probably a waste of time to expose these people because anyone with spiritual discernment already knows they are fake. The rest won't listen, and there are tons of materials produced by solid Christians to expose them..they simply won't listen and will continue to plug their ears to criticism of their false teachers.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Sooooooooo, what's that have to do with the price of beans?
I can find fault with your gossiping and lack of faith in God and His word, but how does that help others, or you, for that matter?
Again, sowing hate, condemnation, and division in the church, against those who do not believe as you do. That is a BAD thing to do, and is sinful in the eyes of God.
I would suggest you start examining your own heart to see if it is right before God, that you not be found a hypocrite.

If you want a short answer, the principles of Word Of Faith/Pentecostal/Charismatic teachings contain error, and I want seekers to realize that there are sane Christians who don't believe their false teachings.

In fact, there's reason to believe that many or most of those who teach those things aren't believers at all. Their god is the health, wealth, and prosperity god, and they are worshiping an idol.

The idea that there is not a place for suffering for those who are faithful to God is a lie.

I don't know any believer who had a chronic condition like serious cerebral palsy who has been healed, other than those in the apostolic era. As your dialogue indicated, you believe such individuals are faithless.

I say no, it requires more faith to endure in a loving and trusting relationship with God in the midst of such conditions.

And the trashy teachers and believers who say otherwise...they are under delusion that is harmful to the Church. I have seen individuals who have suffered under such garbage teaching and claims from their Christian "friends".

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Notice the claim, folks. The reason those who continue in their infirmities is because they lack faith.

Their god is a god who cannot heal someone who is in doubt, and has little sympathy for them, because their condition is their fault.

Additionally, I would like to note that I do believe God gives good things. But, what is good? Is it good that God allows his children to suffer in order to deepen their desire for his kingdom? Of course it is, but in the charismatic/Word of Faith/Pentecostal worldview, they are so shallow and superficial and juvenile that they cannot see this.

By the way, I never said it was wrong to pray for healing. If God doesn't answer by healing the person, does that mean that they don't have enough faith? Of course not. It requires faith to suffer and still continue to praise Job.

And I don't think these types of guys have read Job or Hebrews 11 or James 1 or the whole book of Psalms, which find people suffering in faith.

Instead, they would prefer to hear Kenneth Copeland yelling "MONNNNNEEEEYYYY....COME TO ME". Or listen to dingbats like Joyce Meyer claiming Jesus was stomped on in hell by the demons...

By the way, there is a value in the continuing protest of Christians in regards to these false teachings. It informs seekers that not all Christians are loons, and those that are loons may not be real Christians.

I highly recommend Costi Hinn's two books, as well as his numerous Youtube videos, for an insiders' view of the falseness of this religion. He is the nephew of Benny Hinn, and is now an evangelical Christian.

Benny Hinn..now there's another one..he claimed in 1994, I believe, that funeral homes were going to put TV sets in their funeral parlors so that the dead could hear his messages and be resurrected.

Laughable.

And, it isn't rumors because these guys are foolish enough to make public statements. The facts are in print, audio and video recordings for anyone who wants to research them.

Here's one that includes the Jesus in Hell thing:

Well, I will acknowledge one thing..it's probably a waste of time to expose these people because anyone with spiritual discernment already knows they are fake. The rest won't listen, and there are tons of materials produced by solid Christians to expose them..they simply won't listen and will continue to plug their ears to criticism of their false teachers.

I said this in my earlier post:

It requires faith to suffer and still continue to praise Job.

This should have been "praise God like Job". I shouldn't communicate before I've consumed my first cup of coffee

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Here's the Costi Hinn books I mentioned:

God, Greed, and the (Prosperity) Gospel: How Truth Overwhelms a Life Built on Lies
by Costi Hinn
Learn more: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0310355273/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_lOfjEbBG3M0GX

Defining Deception: Freeing the Church from the Mystical-Miracle Movement
by Costi Hinn
Learn more: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0986444243/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_xPfjEbKPCQ0HV

 

[know1]

If you want a short answer, the principles of Word Of Faith/Pentecostal/Charismatic teachings contain error, and I want seekers to realize that there are sane Christians who don't believe their false teachings.
Specifically, what errors?
Please give some scriptural examples of what the other side believes, with your interpretation of the same text.

In fact, there's reason to believe that many or most of those who teach those things aren't believers at all. Their god is the health, wealth, and prosperity god, and they are worshiping an idol.
What reason might that be?
How are they not believers?
As in many churches, there are those in the body, posing as a child of God, when they are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I know for a fact, their God is the same God of heaven written in the bible, and they are not worshipers of idols.
All because you think a Christian should walk in the curses, and be BOTH SICK AND POOR, while the world gets the good things?
How is that, good news?
The devil is the one who wants the children of God, sick and poor.
You are not doing God's work by telling people the should be sick and poor, but the devil's work.
Abraham called those things, EVIL, but called what the rich man had, "GOOD THING".
Jesus said, "..., how much more shall your Father,... give GOOD THINGS to them that ask?"

The idea that there is not a place for suffering for those who are faithful to God is a lie.
The real lie is, thinking you are suffering for Christ through a sickness or disease.
If one really were to suffer for Christ with a sickness, then why do they seek relief from the symptoms.
If God wants you sick, then why are you going against His will seeking relief?
That's all silly stupid nonsense.
That is not suffering for Christ, but for someone's sin.
What is all through the bible is, sickness and poverty come on the sinful, as appose to, good health and wealth overtake the obedient and those who walk uprightly in God's eyes.

I don't know any believer who had a chronic condition like serious cerebral palsy who has been healed, other than those in the apostolic era. As your dialogue indicated, you believe such individuals are faithless.
You sir, have been missing out.
One does not go to the cemetery to find the living, and neither does one go to a dead church to find God's hand moving in people's lives.
And another thing, I didn't know faith came by one SEEING someone else get healed.
Jesus rebuked doubting Thomas, because he had to SEE it, before he would believe it.
Jesus said, "blessed are those who have NOT SEEN, and yet believe.
Joh_20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

I say no, it requires more faith to endure in a loving and trusting relationship with God in the midst of such conditions.
If you think it takes more faith to endure the devil's attacks, then you have absolutely NO CLUE what faith is, or how it works.
What it takes more of is, stupidity.
I understand, there are many people who are ignorant of their RIGHTS in Christ, but to want to suffer for something Jesus bore in His own body on the cross, to take it away from us, is basically a slap in His face.
The suffering for Christ had to do with PERSECUTION, NOT through sicknesses or diseases.
I have met many so-called Christians like you. One of your biggest problems is getting your eyes off the natural world and how it works, and onto the word/promises of God.
You are not suppose to let them depart from your eyes, but are to keep them in the midst of your heart.

And the trashy teachers and believers who say otherwise...they are under delusion that is harmful to the Church. I have seen individuals who have suffered under such garbage teaching and claims from their Christian "friends".
Like many in the body of Christ, ignorance is not only folly, but can be deadly at times.
I have failed to receive many times, but Jesus said, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples. And ye shall know the truth, and the TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE.

 

[know1]

Here's the Costi Hinn books I mentioned:

God, Greed, and the (Prosperity) Gospel: How Truth Overwhelms a Life Built on Lies
by Costi Hinn
Learn more: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0310355273/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_lOfjEbBG3M0GX

Defining Deception: Freeing the Church from the Mystical-Miracle Movement
by Costi Hinn
Learn more: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0986444243/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_xPfjEbKPCQ0HV

I don't look up to or listen to any of the Hinns.
I look to the word of God for my doctrines.

 

[know1]

Notice the claim, folks. The reason those who continue in their infirmities is because they lack faith.
But scripture teaches us to speak words of faith, NOT words of doubt, or, what is, as though it is.

Their god is a god who cannot heal someone who is in doubt, and has little sympathy for them, because their condition is their fault.
Mar 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
Mar 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
It looks like Jesus had the same problem.

Additionally, I would like to note that I do believe God gives good things. But, what is good? Is it good that God allows his children to suffer in order to deepen their desire for his kingdom? Of course it is, but in the charismatic/Word of Faith/Pentecostal worldview, they are so shallow and superficial and juvenile that they cannot see this.
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Is that what you would do to one of your children?

By the way, I never said it was wrong to pray for healing. If God doesn't answer by healing the person, does that mean that they don't have enough faith? Of course not. It requires faith to suffer and still continue to praise Job.
Sounds more like HOPING, WISHING, AND WONDERING to me.
That's not faith in the least.
No wonder why you never see anyone getting healed.
If you don't know what God's going to do concerning healing, then you just wasted your breath and energy.
And it doesn't take any faith to suffer from a wasting disease.
Job suffered because of His sins, NOT because He was righteous.


Well, I will acknowledge one thing..it's probably a waste of time to expose these people because anyone with spiritual discernment already knows they are fake. The rest won't listen, and there are tons of materials produced by solid Christians to expose them..they simply won't listen and will continue to plug their ears to criticism of their false teachers.
Only simpletons need someone to tell them, who is of God and who is not.
The bible says, the anointing teaches us all things.
And Jesus said, "you shall know them by their fruit.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

UnitedWithChrist said:
Notice the claim, folks. The reason those who continue in their infirmities is because they lack faith.
But scripture teaches us to speak words of faith, NOT words of doubt, or, what is, as though it is.

Their god is a god who cannot heal someone who is in doubt, and has little sympathy for them, because their condition is their fault.
Mar 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
Mar 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
It looks like Jesus had the same problem.

Additionally, I would like to note that I do believe God gives good things. But, what is good? Is it good that God allows his children to suffer in order to deepen their desire for his kingdom? Of course it is, but in the charismatic/Word of Faith/Pentecostal worldview, they are so shallow and superficial and juvenile that they cannot see this.
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Is that what you would do to one of your children?

By the way, I never said it was wrong to pray for healing. If God doesn't answer by healing the person, does that mean that they don't have enough faith? Of course not. It requires faith to suffer and still continue to praise Job.
Sounds more like HOPING, WISHING, AND WONDERING to me.
That's not faith in the least.
No wonder why you never see anyone getting healed.
If you don't know what God's going to do concerning healing, then you just wasted your breath and energy.
And it doesn't take any faith to suffer from a wasting disease.
Job suffered because of His sins, NOT because He was righteous.


Well, I will acknowledge one thing..it's probably a waste of time to expose these people because anyone with spiritual discernment already knows they are fake. The rest won't listen, and there are tons of materials produced by solid Christians to expose them..they simply won't listen and will continue to plug their ears to criticism of their false teachers.
Only simpletons need someone to tell them, who is of God and who is not.
The bible says, the anointing teaches us all things.
And Jesus said, "you shall know them by their fruit.

Read Hebrews 11. Those who are proclaimed by God as faithful did not receive the end of their faith...but they will.

And they know it.

Disgracing brothers who suffer from infirmities is shameful.

I used to belong to a cult that did the same thing.

The analogy that the founder used (probably stolen from Word of Faith people) was, it is like the guy on a cruise ship eating cheese and crackers in his cabin, not aware that a sumptuous buffet is available for free in the dining room.

So, at best, those not healed are ignorant and/or faithless.

All the time, these guys ignore the fact that their teeth are wearing down, they require hearing aids, they are wearing eyeglasses, and they are suffering from ailments themselves.

And their teachers are employing plastic surgeons to make themselves look younger so they can maintain the falseness of their teachings and shovel in the dough doing it.

Anyone with sense knows that's what is going on.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I don't look up to or listen to any of the Hinns.
I look to the word of God for my doctrines.

Costi Hinn addresses more than the specific teachers..he addresses the underlying deception.

Although he focuses on some teachers, including his uncle and Bill Johnson.

By the way, guys who claim they simply read the Bible and learned these principles often have read the teachings of these people and won't admit that their understanding came from them.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

UnitedWithChrist said:
If you want a short answer, the principles of Word Of Faith/Pentecostal/Charismatic teachings contain error, and I want seekers to realize that there are sane Christians who don't believe their false teachings.
Specifically, what errors?
Please give some scriptural examples of what the other side believes, with your interpretation of the same text.

In fact, there's reason to believe that many or most of those who teach those things aren't believers at all. Their god is the health, wealth, and prosperity god, and they are worshiping an idol.
What reason might that be?
How are they not believers?
As in many churches, there are those in the body, posing as a child of God, when they are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I know for a fact, their God is the same God of heaven written in the bible, and they are not worshipers of idols.
All because you think a Christian should walk in the curses, and be BOTH SICK AND POOR, while the world gets the good things?
How is that, good news?
The devil is the one who wants the children of God, sick and poor.
You are not doing God's work by telling people the should be sick and poor, but the devil's work.
Abraham called those things, EVIL, but called what the rich man had, "GOOD THING".
Jesus said, "..., how much more shall your Father,... give GOOD THINGS to them that ask?"

The idea that there is not a place for suffering for those who are faithful to God is a lie.
The real lie is, thinking you are suffering for Christ through a sickness or disease.
If one really were to suffer for Christ with a sickness, then why do they seek relief from the symptoms.
If God wants you sick, then why are you going against His will seeking relief?
That's all silly stupid nonsense.
That is not suffering for Christ, but for someone's sin.
What is all through the bible is, sickness and poverty come on the sinful, as appose to, good health and wealth overtake the obedient and those who walk uprightly in God's eyes.

I don't know any believer who had a chronic condition like serious cerebral palsy who has been healed, other than those in the apostolic era. As your dialogue indicated, you believe such individuals are faithless.
You sir, have been missing out.
One does not go to the cemetery to find the living, and neither does one go to a dead church to find God's hand moving in people's lives.
And another thing, I didn't know faith came by one SEEING someone else get healed.
Jesus rebuked doubting Thomas, because he had to SEE it, before he would believe it.
Jesus said, "blessed are those who have NOT SEEN, and yet believe.
Joh_20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

I say no, it requires more faith to endure in a loving and trusting relationship with God in the midst of such conditions.
If you think it takes more faith to endure the devil's attacks, then you have absolutely NO CLUE what faith is, or how it works.
What it takes more of is, stupidity.
I understand, there are many people who are ignorant of their RIGHTS in Christ, but to want to suffer for something Jesus bore in His own body on the cross, to take it away from us, is basically a slap in His face.
The suffering for Christ had to do with PERSECUTION, NOT through sicknesses or diseases.
I have met many so-called Christians like you. One of your biggest problems is getting your eyes off the natural world and how it works, and onto the word/promises of God.
You are not suppose to let them depart from your eyes, but are to keep them in the midst of your heart.

And the trashy teachers and believers who say otherwise...they are under delusion that is harmful to the Church. I have seen individuals who have suffered under such garbage teaching and claims from their Christian "friends".
Like many in the body of Christ, ignorance is not only folly, but can be deadly at times.
I have failed to receive many times, but Jesus said, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples. And ye shall know the truth, and the TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE.

One, you need to read the book of Job to see examples of a godly, righteous, faithful man suffering.

Two, God does give "good things" to his children. This is called providence. But, it extends beyond providence to conforming him to the image of Christ through suffering. I have outlined how suffering works to expose the person's evil intentions. Through illness and want, the real desires of our heart are exposed, for good or for bad. Job's wife would be an example of this...she apparently was cursing God through the same trials that caused Job to praise him still.

Additionally, it proved to the world and the angelic host that Job didn't follow God just because of his material blessings, but because he had a relationship with God, and God was the true desire of his heart. Seeing a suffering saint who continues to praise God provides a brilliant example of this sort of faithfulness.

Three, those who hold the health, wealth and prosperity gospel live in denial. Their bodies continue to decay and be subject to the Curse in a physical way, yet they will deny it with their dying breath. Their hair gets grey, their eyes grow dim, their hearing grows fainter, and their teeth wear away. Yet, they will deny that the curse still affects them in a physical sense.

It's pretty funny to see, by the way...those health, wealth, prosperity people will even deny that they are sick because they are superstitious and believe that their affirmation of this will cause their situation to become reality.