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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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How can it be both ways?
Those who need are lost never had the promise in the first place.
If their so called faith failed then it wasn't true faith to start with.
If they are elect then surely God keeps them in the true faith.
If you have literally had believers who deny Jesus words on obedience and wanting to be like him, even after correction from the Bible (Romans, Galatians and so on)
Then let them go.
The assumption I'm making here is the difference between someone who says "I can do what I want and it's covered" as opposed to someone who says "I want to be like Jesus but I'm struggling with this and that, I need help"
A bit like the man who said to Jesus "I believe help me in my unbelief"
Those who need are lost never had the promise in the first place.
If their so called faith failed then it wasn't true faith to start with.
If they are elect then surely God keeps them in the true faith.
If you have literally had believers who deny Jesus words on obedience and wanting to be like him, even after correction from the Bible (Romans, Galatians and so on)
Then let them go.
The assumption I'm making here is the difference between someone who says "I can do what I want and it's covered" as opposed to someone who says "I want to be like Jesus but I'm struggling with this and that, I need help"
A bit like the man who said to Jesus "I believe help me in my unbelief"
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(Rev 22:18 KJV)
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
(Rev 22:19 KJV)
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
(Rev 22:19 KJV)
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
This is a good point in one sense. Today people are very quick on summaries not seeing how deep the
principles go and their deeper implications.
Easy believism - say a phrase or repeat a few sentences, have a particular expression and you are eternally, irrevocably saved.
Now slap onto this OSAS, and say security, being part of the group is everything no matter what else takes place.
Some argue this and say this is the gospel, no fruit, no reality, nothing to indicate anything has happened, that is what salvation is, at its basic form, just an acceptance of Jesus.
Now to say rather the elect will be mature in Christ and appear like Him on the last day, pure, holy, righteous, a people purchased by His blood and worthy of His name, destined for their inheritance, showing the full fruit of the Spirit, is quite something else.
So how do I distinguish between the two? Listen to Paul and his ambition for the believers he was ministering to
Phil 2:14-16
Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Can you not hear Pauls ambition for these people, "without fault"?
Now I am speaking to the elect, to encourage you. God bless you
principles go and their deeper implications.
Easy believism - say a phrase or repeat a few sentences, have a particular expression and you are eternally, irrevocably saved.
Now slap onto this OSAS, and say security, being part of the group is everything no matter what else takes place.
Some argue this and say this is the gospel, no fruit, no reality, nothing to indicate anything has happened, that is what salvation is, at its basic form, just an acceptance of Jesus.
Now to say rather the elect will be mature in Christ and appear like Him on the last day, pure, holy, righteous, a people purchased by His blood and worthy of His name, destined for their inheritance, showing the full fruit of the Spirit, is quite something else.
So how do I distinguish between the two? Listen to Paul and his ambition for the believers he was ministering to
Phil 2:14-16
Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Can you not hear Pauls ambition for these people, "without fault"?
Now I am speaking to the elect, to encourage you. God bless you
I believe all names are in the book, those whos names "have not been found" written in the book are those whos names have been blotted out.....
Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Who is he that overcomes?
1 John 5:4
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
________
Exodus 32:33
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
________
Revelation 20:15
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
All names are in, those who are blotted out will no longer be found in the book. Whatsoever is born of God is promised to not be blotted out. (us saved believers)
Others will not have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them and will be blotted out due to the righteousness of God bringing justice to sin.
Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Who is he that overcomes?
1 John 5:4
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
________
Exodus 32:33
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
________
Revelation 20:15
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
All names are in, those who are blotted out will no longer be found in the book. Whatsoever is born of God is promised to not be blotted out. (us saved believers)
Others will not have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them and will be blotted out due to the righteousness of God bringing justice to sin.
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I understand your argument here.
The church has a history of false rejection of people for cultural reasons and not spiritual ones, and a real lack of love.
My concern is not with rejection by with the elect who are Gods chosen.
You appear to want others acceptable than the elect who are capable of walking in Christs ways.
God declares few are chosen, many are rejected. This has never been my way or desire, but to find Gods heart
and His ways and will.
The church has a history of false rejection of people for cultural reasons and not spiritual ones, and a real lack of love.
My concern is not with rejection by with the elect who are Gods chosen.
You appear to want others acceptable than the elect who are capable of walking in Christs ways.
God declares few are chosen, many are rejected. This has never been my way or desire, but to find Gods heart
and His ways and will.
E
Your missing the whole discussion
the discussion is are those who have been truly SAVED because if their true living faith in Christ having been adopted into Gods family saved eternally
or after being born again. Can they lose their sons JP and end up in hell?
it’s not do I think a person is saved or not. Only God knows
it’s not is a licentious person saved, I think we all agree. Their faith was dead hence they have never been saved hence they are still lost
the discussion is are those who have been truly SAVED because if their true living faith in Christ having been adopted into Gods family saved eternally
or after being born again. Can they lose their sons JP and end up in hell?
it’s not do I think a person is saved or not. Only God knows
it’s not is a licentious person saved, I think we all agree. Their faith was dead hence they have never been saved hence they are still lost
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Why are you responding to my post with the above.
I was responding to @JohnW34 who seems to believe that the elect are saved from the beginning of time and were written in the lambs book of life.
It seems that you did not read or ignored my first sentence question to him but embolded in red my second sentence to post what you did above.
Maybe read all posts by members before responding.
On a side note can you explain why you posted the above in relation to my response to JohnW34 and if you have an issue with what he said respond to him like you have me.
I was responding to @JohnW34 who seems to believe that the elect are saved from the beginning of time and were written in the lambs book of life.
It seems that you did not read or ignored my first sentence question to him but embolded in red my second sentence to post what you did above.
Maybe read all posts by members before responding.
On a side note can you explain why you posted the above in relation to my response to JohnW34 and if you have an issue with what he said respond to him like you have me.
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@PS I am not feeling the love at this moment with all those red X's
See you stated that to me once ...big mistake I have an excellent memory
See you stated that to me once ...big mistake I have an excellent memory
"So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.
Matthew 15:18
But the things that come out of a person's mouth come from the heart, and these defile them.
Love you sister , the daggers fly , but GOD is our Almighty shield...xox...
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You seem to correlate easy believism with OSAS.
Is that correct?
If so why so?
If you believe that people are elected from the beginning of time then they will not lose their faith want they will be saved based on that faith.
That faith will save them and it's a faith evidenced by works that will be tested.
Is that correct?
If so why so?
If you believe that people are elected from the beginning of time then they will not lose their faith want they will be saved based on that faith.
That faith will save them and it's a faith evidenced by works that will be tested.
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Not really.
Converse with John and see if you come to the same conclusion.
The elect are from the beginning of time and are in the book of life according to John.
If that's the case then those elect are OSAS.
They have to be if they are elected from the beginning of time.
Maybe just put aside the thoughts you believe what OSAS is expressed in your posts on here.
Converse with John and see if you come to the same conclusion.
The elect are from the beginning of time and are in the book of life according to John.
If that's the case then those elect are OSAS.
They have to be if they are elected from the beginning of time.
Maybe just put aside the thoughts you believe what OSAS is expressed in your posts on here.
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