Not By Works

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JohnW34 said:
As you are correct about me what election position do you think I hold?
Surely with your knowledge of theology I must fit into one of your boxes?
After you have answered I will check to see if I agree :)
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I do not wish to argue theology Anyone here who knows me understands this

just Want to discuss the Bible and what each of us believes

If you are correct and did not lie
you stated once a person is born again. Made olive saved by grace
they are saved forever correct?
or am I mistaken?
 
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JohnW34 said:
You have been correct? Odd, you said I claimed to be OSAS, when I had not.
That is the strangest logical conclusion I have come across. Are you addicted to being right
or appearing to be, even when you are not and cannot admit it? lol :)
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At least we now know what side of the fence you are on. Bye.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
He might. I am not sure
my whole beef with him is his puffing up and approval of PS. Who continually and unmercifully attacks us. It’s like he does not understand. If he is eternally security believer. Than PS attacks him also
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Welp.... all we can do is just be honest and patient and do our best to share the truth and let everyone have a chance to speak...


I think it's wise to pay attention to what others may encourage but at the same time it is really easy to misunderstand some people if we read really quickly and I've agreed with people I disagree with lol

and once I didnt know one of the trouble makers and when i was new i came in defending them not yet seeing their subtle and dishonest tactics....
 
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EleventhHour said:
Pretty clear to me.... but this not unusual they use the same language but ascribe a different meaning.

I am getting wise to their tactics
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Interesting observation. When we read scripture, we have to interpret the meanings of the words so we understand its full context and the meaning the writer is intending. With scripture being so involved and complex this is not necessarily obvious. If I take Jesus calling me to hate my family, that would be a very cult like behaviour, but a literalist reading would say this, or carrying my cross, when I do not actually own a cross, and do not know the benefit of trying to carry a 50kg cross around work all day.

So scripture says I have eternal life. Amen.
 
JohnW34 said:
Interesting observation. When we read scripture, we have to interpret the meanings of the words so we understand its full context and the meaning the writer is intending. With scripture being so involved and complex this is not necessarily obvious. If I take Jesus calling me to hate my family, that would be a very cult like behaviour, but a literalist reading would say this, or carrying my cross, when I do not actually own a cross, and do not know the benefit of trying to carry a 50kg cross around work all day.

So scripture says I have eternal life. Amen.
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Yes I agree we have to use good hermeneutics to understand scripture as it was originally intended to be understood and by the Holy Spirit.

The question remains does eternal life mean to you that salvation is secure and saved is saved?
 
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OneOfHis said:
Welp.... all we can do is just be honest and patient and do our best to share the truth and let everyone have a chance to speak...


I think it's wise to pay attention to what others may encourage but at the same time it is really easy to misunderstand some people if we read really quickly and I've agreed with people I disagree with lol

and once I didnt know one of the trouble makers and when i was new i came in defending them not yet seeing their subtle and dishonest tactics....
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Amen

But when you where shown you quickly adjusted
 
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EleventhHour said:
He was having hard time coming to grips with the truth when confronted with it....happens a lot.
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It used to be that if you could prove with scripture, most people would accept Scripture as proof that they were wrong.

Now, in this later days, I have noticed that most people dig in their heals, and start making excuses why those Scriptures do not mean what they actually say. I think it is part of the great falling away from truth. Verses LIKE THESE:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
 
JohnW34 said:
So judgemental. So does this mean I am now not saved, but if I said yes to the label OSAS I would be?
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Is it a label?

The only ones who attemp to make it a label are those supposed to what I says. That one a person is saved their salvation is secure forever unconditionally
 
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EleventhHour said:
Yes I agree we have to use good hermeneutics to understand scripture as it was originally intended to be understood and by the Holy Spirit.

The question remains does eternal life mean to you that salvation is secure and saved is saved?
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Here is the dilemma. A promise of eternal life is eternal life to the elect.
But to the lost, the promise is not fulfilled. Is it not fulfilled because of failure of their faith present time,
or what will happen later? And are we called to bring doubt in the elects mind today by introducing doubt
because to the lost it literally does not matter though they will think it applies to them also.

Jesus's promises are to the elect, His sheep, and He defines them well.
I have had believers literally deny Jesus's words on obedience and walking in His ways, and then claim Jesus's
promises apply to them, even though their very rebellion declares they are not His sheep.

But only the elect understand this. Which is ironic on a forum for unbelievers and believers. But then Jesus
faced the same issue, but it is a little mind bending, God bless you
 
JohnW34 said:
Do I claim that? Please can you show me.
I believe in the elect, chosen of God before the beginning of time, written in the Lambs book of life.

Who they are, we can only trust the testimony of the Holy Spirit and the testimony of belief in Jesus and His coming, death on the cross for the forgiveness of sins and resurrection to the Father, in the belief we too will be raised to eternal life in Christ Jesus Amen.

So what do you call me. A calvanist, an OSAS believer, or just a simple follower of Jesus.

And what of Judas? He appeared an apostle yet betrayed his Lord. But then Jesus said of him

John 17:12
While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
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If you believe in the elect, chosen of God before the beginning of time and written in the Lambs book of life then is that not OSAS?

Afterall if chosen by God from the beginning of time and in the book then you cannot be written out.

As for Judas he obviously was not one of the elect therefore never saved to begin with.
 
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JohnW34 said:
Here is the dilemma. A promise of eternal life is eternal life to the elect.
But to the lost, the promise is not fulfilled. Is it not fulfilled because of failure of their faith present time,
or what will happen later? And are we called to bring doubt in the elects mind today by introducing doubt
because to the lost it literally does not matter though they will think it applies to them also.

Jesus's promises are to the elect, His sheep, and He defines them well.
I have had believers literally deny Jesus's words on obedience and walking in His ways, and then claim Jesus's
promises apply to them, even though their very rebellion declares they are not His sheep.

But only the elect understand this. Which is ironic on a forum for unbelievers and believers. But then Jesus
faced the same issue, but it is a little mind bending, God bless you
Click to expand...


Peter openly declared he was not a follower of Jesus.

Was he saved when he denied Jesus?


Yup.
There is no dilemma when you separate mans judgment from Gods judgement.


Our words and actions before man can surely make us appear to not be a part of Christs body.....

But God sees deeper and knows who He has started in despite what might make you lack confidence in someone else.




I'd agree... to call good evil and evil good is not of God.....
To do evil and justify it as "good" certainly would make it appear that this person is void of the indwelling Holy Spirit or a heart that desires to conform to the will of God.....

God saved His own appart from their performance, knowing where they would stumble....


Peter knew better than to do what he did and man could say "of course he is not a believer he said he wasnt"....


if a parent says

"i steal because i need to feed my family"

and justifies it before a man who rightfully rebuked him.... it doesnt mean he isnt crying to God and asking for an opportunity behind closed doors



i wont pretend to know who else is saved


but those who are saved

are saved forever

and appart from their own merit
 
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