Traditions of man, like you claiming to maintain your salvation. Too funny!That's the sound of the traditions of man crashing down!
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Now that is a LOADED QUESTION! If the diversity was not present in all the denominations of the world, IT COULD BE TRUE, AS LONG EVERY PASTOR TAUGHT THE SAME SERMON, and never deviated from the PLAN. Sense we got a multitude of denominations, I will answer the question, I will answer with my Personal view, KNOWING when they read what I wrote, many will like TO THROW STONES.
I will tell you how conservative evangelicals will answer this question.
No one is SAVED BY WATER, unless you count the EIGHT People on the ARK. So with that Statement: All Catholics, All the Lutherans, and Some of the Mainline Christian Denominations are ready to throw Stones.
1 Peter 3:20-22 (NKJV)
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
Okay, answering this question further, will make most of the Pentecostal, Charismatics, and Believer's that Tongues are for today, ANGRY. In fact some will what to throw BIG ROCKS when I say what I have to say, TO ANSWER THE Question. NO, SPIRITUAL BAPTISM has NOTHING TO DO WITH SPEAKING IN TONGUES. When you actually read the Scripture, the Holy Spirit is the ONE DOING BAPTIZING, and HE IMMERSES {BAPTIZES} US INTO THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST HIMSELF.
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (NASB)
12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body [NOT IN WATER], whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
That is what it says, and WE BELIEVE IT WHOLE HEARTEDLY.
HE Immerses us in the the Spiritual Body of Christ, HE Pours GOD's LOVE into our Hearts (human spirit), HE births our once dead Human Spirit into Eternal LIFE, HE gives us a loving CHANGE in our HEARTS (human spirit) to were we have AGAPE LOVE FOR GOD and the Brethren, HE gives us an insatiable appetite FOR THE WORD OF GOD, and so many other wonderful things.
The more I read your above post the more I realize how profound it is in truth and sadness. It’s actually quite astonishing.
If you had accepted Christ as your LORD and Savior and believed in your heart , and confessed that He is who He says He is , then yes you were saved...
You got the victory over fornication , praise God , I was saved just over 4 years , and it took two of them years for the LORD to take alcohol away from me...
I still have to be so very careful not to fall into that temptation again , only God has set us free...
Some people have certain vices taken away all at once , others not , but the LORD knows what He is doing...xox...
thanks for honesty not a copout answer. but now my next question is how is this not salvation by works? where i had to stop that sin or i woudl be found wanting as you said?
you know that we all die as liars gossipers or something. no one is perfect so do we need to repent of all sin.
What an amazing chapter detailing His power to change us!
From being overcome by sin to "I have been blameless before Him and have kept myself from sin," v.25.
v33 "It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect." Wow!
Believe God! Have faith.
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EleventhHour
Guest
How about we focus on salvation first... since I am not sure you are entirely clear on what it means.
If we by the Spirit put to death the misdeeds of the body we will live. Do you have the Holy Spirit? Do you seek to be led by the Holy Spirit? Then you won't have a problem. He supplies the power (can even give the power to grant you repentance 2Tim2v25- still your choice to, but you can ask God to help you in any area that you struggle in). If you are in Christ, there is no mistaking that voice of conscience when He convicts us of sin and righteousness. Don't reject that or quench the Spirit. You can by his Grace do all things though Christ who strengthens you. Do you believe this? Or are you yet to believe it? Or do you reject it?
If you reject it I can assure you that your flesh is still very much in control. Aligning your will to that of God destroys the works of the devil.
There is tremendous power available in His Grace.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
The origional KJV says repent ye and let everyone be baptized
ye is 2nd person plural, Ie everyone repent
baptize is third person singular, Ie all of you who (associated with another second person word, Ie remmision of sin)
so it actually was close, as it has the plural and singular and words. Where as the new translationS leave them out
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
E
EleventhHour
Guest
Yes I noticed a certain theme in their posts over the past little while... more astonishing is that they are unmoved against their own surety of self worth and ability to embrace Grace.
so whats the answer to my questions
In Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as some would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.
Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:21-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness. Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them.
In Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works, including Roman Catholics, Mormons and Campbellites. *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9-10). *In either sense, believers obey Him.
Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
Do you use Acts 2:38 to teach that water baptism is the means by which we receive the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit?
If so, how then do you harmonize that with (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18)?
Which of those listed are you permitted to live in? If you are an unrepentant liar, then God would not be true to His word when he says in the last book of the Bible
"14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."
But you’re not. Welcome to reality.
Jesus says anyone who claims they are without sin is a liar and is calling God a liar. So which is it, God is amazing or God is a liar?
Water baptism is often done as being buried with Christ and resurrected. We are also washed in the Spirit in new birth, so this is an infilling, but we never rise out of the Spirit, and dry off, rather are indwelt. So the analogy does not seem to fit in the same way.