Not By Works

Chris1975 · Jan 4, 2020

Colossians 1
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Jan 4, 2020

Judges1318 said:

“A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Jan 4, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Baby's milk.
Here's something meatier for you....

Numbers 23:19
“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Chris1975 · Jan 4, 2020

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

You may consider it baby's milk, but you haven't explained it. How about your personal explanation of the verse I quoted. Don't glance over it. Explain line by line, word by word. Be sincere.

VCO · Jan 4, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Okay CHRIS, I gave you the ANSWER, and you either Chose to not believe it, or it went CLEAN OVER YOUR HEAD.

Could this be the reason why?

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now I must quote this verse to you:

Titus 3:10 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

This is your FIRST WARNING. Then I will give you a Second Warning. On the THIRD offense, of your Divisively Critcizing my response to you, You will go on my permanent IGNORE LIST. So NONE of your POSTS will show up on my Screen. Capisce?

gb9 · Jan 4, 2020

Chris1975 said:

do you not think it would much better to take the Bible as a whole, instead of plucking out verses and building theology around them?

do you not think that doing that is , um , a fraud?/

VCO · Jan 4, 2020

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

I just had give him his FIRST WARNING, #120,325. I figure he will soon be on everyone's IGNORE LIST. He seems to NOT UNDERSTAND SPIRITUAL TRUTHS, or it absolutely ADDICTED to arguing, like He is fishing for particular response from us, so he can pounce like cat, with his favorite Mis-translated verses.

RebuildJesussChurch · Jan 4, 2020

mailmandan said:

We were coming from Titus 2:11-14 and everything was fine. Let's stick with what is written. That is what I teach.

Christ suffered for us leaving us an example that we should follow in His steps: who committed no sin, neither was any deceit found in His mouth, when insulted He did not retaliate, when He suffered He made no threats instead He kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges justly. He bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we being dead to sins would live to righteousness; by His wounds we have been healed. We all like sheep were going astray [rebelling], but now we have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of our souls.

And there's the new way of life, in the Spirit. Live in it and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature just like the Holy Spirit, through Paul, said.

You are right, the Kingdom of God is not the Magic Kingdom. The foundation has to be laid. Repenting from acts that lead to death is part of that foundation. Then we are to go on to perfection and I have been commanded to be perfect as My Father in Heaven is, just as you have been also. But the way for me to fall is open to me just as to the Hebrews, the Corinthians, the 7 churches and everyone who professes Jesus Christ as Lord. In fact, most who profess Him as Lord are houses built on sand, not doing the will of the Father in Heaven or putting the Word of Jesus in to practice. Just a fact. The seed that was scattered along the pathway - I'm in no danger of that. Nor am I in any danger of being as seed sown among rocky places. I've persevered. That does not mean that I am as the seed sown in good soil. It would be stupid of me to think that being as the seed sown among thorns could not happen in my case. The worries, riches, pleasures and desires for things other than His Word could still enter in to my life and choke the Word so that it became unfruitful while still living.

Personally, I like a little risk. Very risky to leave Egypt, have no homes, then go to war against indigenous folks. But I won't stand on the East side of Jordan pretending the land has been taken, either. Ain't no Philistines in Heaven, so the Promised Land isn't that.

My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow Me. There's the safety. Those are the ones who won't be snatched out of His hand. Could I turn back to Egypt? Sure could. I'm no robot. I could do what Vashti did. It's the same thing the Christian church did. Jesus isn't Lord for most. Everybody clamors for Him as Savior though. And everyone who thinks they couldn't fall or is absolutely going to attain to the "out resurrection" is deceived. Before the very end for Paul, it was "if by any means I may attain to the resurrection of the dead." And there fat Christians sit claiming they got it, many of them outright self-willed and rebellious. That's not true to the tenor of the entire canon. Right until the final chapter, it's all about conduct. And that conduct, i.e., what we do, has to be by faith.

But if you are still interested in bringing this down to the level of "me", more of my story can be found here:
https://christianchat.com/testimonies/my-conversion.189273/

BillG · Jan 4, 2020

Judges1318 said:

Can you quote the verses that say that please?
That they fell into unbelief. Aka a rejection of Jesus.

My understanding is that Paul was addressing the issue presented to the gentiles that they needed to be cirumcised in order to be saved.
He is telling them "The snip don't save you but only faith"

Galatians 2:11-13

No Return to the Law
11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

Galatians 2:16
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Galatians 3:1-3

Justification by Faith
(cf. Rom. 4:1–25)
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

It seems to me that Paul is saying you are justified by faith and not works of the law.
Do not do that because that will not save you.

Paul tells them off for being led astray by such teachings.
He asks them "Did you receive the Holy Spirit through obedience to the law or by faith?
Or do you believe circumcision will make you perfect, righteous and justified?

So the issue for me is not that they fell into unbelief and willful rejection of Jesus and the gospel he taught them. Rejection of his death and resurrection.

The issue is that they were being pressured to add something to receive salvation, and that was not faith, it was works.

The only pressure that I see concerning unbelief pertains to salvation through faith
Pretty sure you will not agree with that, unless of course you agree that working for salvation in order to maintain it is unbelief. Which means they are no longer saved.

So can you post verses from Galatians that says they lost salvation by becoming unbelievers please.

Ta.

Chris1975 · Jan 4, 2020

VCO said:

Okay CHRIS, I gave you the ANSWER, and you either Chose to not believe it, or it went CLEAN OVER YOUR HEAD.

Could this be the reason why?

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now I must quote this verse to you:

Titus 3:10 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

This is your FIRST WARNING. Then I will give you a Second Warning. On the THIRD offense, of your Divisively Critcizing my response to you, You will go on my permanent IGNORE LIST. So NONE of your POSTS will show up on my Screen. Capisce?

Put me on ignore immediately. Then it's done.

VCO · Jan 4, 2020

Chris1975 said:

NO, I Believe in obeying HIS WORD.

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Jan 4, 2020

Chris1975 said:

Sorry, no pearls for you! (Matthew 7:6)

Judges1318 · Jan 4, 2020

BillG said:

10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you. - Galatians 4:10-11

4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? - Galatians 5:4,7

They were really saved and they really did fall away from faith in Christ for justification. Of course, once saved always saved says they didn't really fall away.

The really big problem with this for once saved always saved is it contradicts their claim that 1 John 2:19 means their leaving means they were never really saved to begin with. Chapter 3 makes it quite clear that they were saved.

Notice, too, how Paul does not affirm some kind of once saved always belief that they are still saved despite their falling away from faith in Christ, but instead expresses his concern that he may have wasted his efforts on them.

EleventhHour · Jan 4, 2020

VCO said:

Not really my point...but thank you.

Chris1975 · Jan 4, 2020

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

Total Cop-Out. You walk around with half a bible. The difference between us is this ---- you can only use half the scriptures to support your doctrine, whereas I can use all of the scriptures to support mine. I can assure you that you do not understand the very scriptures you claim to stand on. You should not shy away (like you just did) from explaining scriptures which challenge your assertions. You should be able to explain them, or be humble enough to learn from them. Avoiding is like an Ostrich who puts its head in the sand. Or someone who presented with the truth blocks their ears shouting "LA LA LA LA LA LA".

This seems to be more prevalent on the forum. Just in the last week we have had :Eleventh Hour; VCO; GracethroughfaithinChrist

…..hiding from the Word of God. And that is not good for any of you.

Chris1975 · Jan 4, 2020

VCO said:

Suit yourself. Then don't complain anymore.

PS · Jan 4, 2020

HOLD FAST UNTO THE END, TILL JESUS COMES

Heb_3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Heb_4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Heb_10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised )

Rev_2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Melach · Jan 4, 2020

Judges1318 said:

i got question can you proof this? is there any evidence for this claim because look at roman catholic church, biggest single church in planet, sod0my capital of the world and very evil. do they believe in osas? nope. do they believe in even what you believe? nope. they believe in full on ritualistic salvation thats very unsecure and even faithful people need purgatory. all this threats and clergy in there are the worst clergy on planet earth.

Discern · Jan 4, 2020

EleventhHour said:

Because you said “were not talking about the Trinity”. Sorry if I misundrstood

Discern · Jan 4, 2020

EleventhHour said:

Because of post 120,240. Sorry if I misunderstood. I was seeking clarification on “were not talking about Trinity” in regards to Jesus’ Deity

Unless you meant that it was off the OP and original topic.

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