Not By Works
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Note where that text states "the covenant that I made WITH THEM [/with ISRAEL]".
Then take note of how people twist what Romans 11 is speaking to, which I've posted before, but will place it here again for your benefit and for the benefit of the readers:
[quoting my past posts on this]
I'm looking for a different quote by George V Wigram... but (in the meantime) in its place, I'll just post this brief portion also by him (note the phrase "God's governmental ways on earth," which is what I believe Roman's 11's "olive tree" represents):
[quoting]
"Gen. 27:29 [Isaac blessing Jacob]. Let peoples (gamnzim, pl.), serve thee and [manners or sorts of ] nations (l'ummim, pl.) bow down to thee: be lord [a mighty man] over thy brethren.
"Observe, this would not run the source of the division of people back to Shem, Ham and Japhet, so as to make the word to be equivalent to what we call the races of people, in connection with the Noahic earth, who constitute the whole human family. The subdivision here alluded to took place in the family of Isaac, type of the heir of promise, not earlier; and the heads of this subdivision are brought before us in Rom. 9 All God's ways and subdivisions are to be noted."
[also]
"f Israel is the goh'y of experience, promise, blessing on the earth; the center of all God's governmental ways on earth; but in saying that, I look at them from outside and as one whole. When they are owned as gammi, my people, their detailed state and associations within is the aspect in which they are considered."
--George V Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/heb...t-testimony-psalms-article/g-v-wigram/la61041
____________
[quoting that other article]
"[re: Romans 11] In Jesus Christ, if the question be about Christian position, eternal life, or the Church considered in her essential relationship to Christ, there was neither Jew nor Gentile; the thoughts found in this chapter [Romans 11] can THERE have no place. If the question be about the cutting off of an individual for sinful conduct, little matters it whether he be Jew or Gentile; that has nothing to do with it, and on the other hand, there would be no question about grafting in again of the Jews more than of any others, and neither Jews nor others could be grafted in, if God had cut them off in such a manner. And if it were a question about a warning from the Apostle to Christians at Rome, and so to others elsewhere, as being brethren, it would be almost nonsense to say, " And thou, O Gentile, take heed!" Why, thou, O Gentile? Had not Christians, Jews by birth, as much need to take heed? Or could the Spirit of God, in such a warning, have made the distinction, and thus denied the principle of, the Church of God in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile? If the question is about a divine administration upon earth, then God can well make the distinction and develop his ways towards the one and the other; and it is plain that from the commencement of the ninth chapter the Apostle is occupied with and pointedly contrasts the Jews and the Gentiles, presenting us with the administration of the divine ways upon the earth. First declaring his attachment to Israel, he points out an election in the election for the earth, and further, that if God according to his sovereignty had chosen Israel (and such was Israel's boast), He had not renounced His sovereignty; and consequently, He could call the Gentiles if he would. Then he recalls to mind that the prophets had shown that a little remnant only, of Israel, at such an epoch, would be saved, and that a stone of stumbling would be laid in Zion."
-- Thoughts on Romans 11 and the Responsibility of the Church, Present Testimony: Volume 4 George V. Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/tho...the-church/present-testimony-volume-4/la85282
[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
____________
Hope that helps.
[note: Romans 11 is not speaking of individual salvation (as though one can "lose" it); Romans 9-11 is covering "nations"--"Israel [singular nation]" and "the Gentiles [plural nations]"]
Then take note of how people twist what Romans 11 is speaking to, which I've posted before, but will place it here again for your benefit and for the benefit of the readers:
[quoting my past posts on this]
I'm looking for a different quote by George V Wigram... but (in the meantime) in its place, I'll just post this brief portion also by him (note the phrase "God's governmental ways on earth," which is what I believe Roman's 11's "olive tree" represents):
[quoting]
"Gen. 27:29 [Isaac blessing Jacob]. Let peoples (gamnzim, pl.), serve thee and [manners or sorts of ] nations (l'ummim, pl.) bow down to thee: be lord [a mighty man] over thy brethren.
"Observe, this would not run the source of the division of people back to Shem, Ham and Japhet, so as to make the word to be equivalent to what we call the races of people, in connection with the Noahic earth, who constitute the whole human family. The subdivision here alluded to took place in the family of Isaac, type of the heir of promise, not earlier; and the heads of this subdivision are brought before us in Rom. 9 All God's ways and subdivisions are to be noted."
[also]
"f Israel is the goh'y of experience, promise, blessing on the earth; the center of all God's governmental ways on earth; but in saying that, I look at them from outside and as one whole. When they are owned as gammi, my people, their detailed state and associations within is the aspect in which they are considered."
--George V Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/heb...t-testimony-psalms-article/g-v-wigram/la61041
____________
[quoting that other article]
"[re: Romans 11] In Jesus Christ, if the question be about Christian position, eternal life, or the Church considered in her essential relationship to Christ, there was neither Jew nor Gentile; the thoughts found in this chapter [Romans 11] can THERE have no place. If the question be about the cutting off of an individual for sinful conduct, little matters it whether he be Jew or Gentile; that has nothing to do with it, and on the other hand, there would be no question about grafting in again of the Jews more than of any others, and neither Jews nor others could be grafted in, if God had cut them off in such a manner. And if it were a question about a warning from the Apostle to Christians at Rome, and so to others elsewhere, as being brethren, it would be almost nonsense to say, " And thou, O Gentile, take heed!" Why, thou, O Gentile? Had not Christians, Jews by birth, as much need to take heed? Or could the Spirit of God, in such a warning, have made the distinction, and thus denied the principle of, the Church of God in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile? If the question is about a divine administration upon earth, then God can well make the distinction and develop his ways towards the one and the other; and it is plain that from the commencement of the ninth chapter the Apostle is occupied with and pointedly contrasts the Jews and the Gentiles, presenting us with the administration of the divine ways upon the earth. First declaring his attachment to Israel, he points out an election in the election for the earth, and further, that if God according to his sovereignty had chosen Israel (and such was Israel's boast), He had not renounced His sovereignty; and consequently, He could call the Gentiles if he would. Then he recalls to mind that the prophets had shown that a little remnant only, of Israel, at such an epoch, would be saved, and that a stone of stumbling would be laid in Zion."
-- Thoughts on Romans 11 and the Responsibility of the Church, Present Testimony: Volume 4 George V. Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/tho...the-church/present-testimony-volume-4/la85282
[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
____________
Hope that helps.
[note: Romans 11 is not speaking of individual salvation (as though one can "lose" it); Romans 9-11 is covering "nations"--"Israel [singular nation]" and "the Gentiles [plural nations]"]
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One thing to consider is who is being spoken to in verses 6 and 8. Then later it is talking about the future of what will happen, a prophecy. God is saying He will fulfill what He said and drive out the Canaanites but in the future people of Israel will forsake Him and worship other gods and God will be angry with them and forsake them.
The context is talking about Israel as a people and we are also operating in the covenant of Moses which was laid out in the same book of Deuteronomy. The basic premise of the covenant God made with them was that if they obey they will receive blessings, including their land, abundance of food and resources and peaceful living, but if they disobey they will receive curses.
That is the way I would look at it. But by no means believe me, I have been proven wrong before so my opinion has no value, but I still decided to share it to encourage others to look into it, perhaps they will reach the same conclusion, perhaps not.
The context is talking about Israel as a people and we are also operating in the covenant of Moses which was laid out in the same book of Deuteronomy. The basic premise of the covenant God made with them was that if they obey they will receive blessings, including their land, abundance of food and resources and peaceful living, but if they disobey they will receive curses.
That is the way I would look at it. But by no means believe me, I have been proven wrong before so my opinion has no value, but I still decided to share it to encourage others to look into it, perhaps they will reach the same conclusion, perhaps not.
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E
Hermeneutics is the science of interpretation using all tools available
some people do it different than others, that’s why you get different interpretations
In my view, the following aspects should be taken account in any and all study of a passage
1. context within the passage (what is author talking about)
2. Historical context (how would the people in that day interpret it, or taking their society and interpret it as they would, not as we would today, as our views and things are far different
3. language (greek/hebrew etc..)
4. the author himself, some authors have particular language they use, and may say the same thing different.
these are not in order, just a basic guideline there are more I am sure
some people do it different than others, that’s why you get different interpretations
In my view, the following aspects should be taken account in any and all study of a passage
1. context within the passage (what is author talking about)
2. Historical context (how would the people in that day interpret it, or taking their society and interpret it as they would, not as we would today, as our views and things are far different
3. language (greek/hebrew etc..)
4. the author himself, some authors have particular language they use, and may say the same thing different.
these are not in order, just a basic guideline there are more I am sure
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Right.
And verse 9 of this chpt in Hebrews also speaks to that "difference" (Heb8:9):
https://biblehub.com/blb/hebrews/8.htm
And verse 9 of this chpt in Hebrews also speaks to that "difference" (Heb8:9):
https://biblehub.com/blb/hebrews/8.htm
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