Not By Works

[Discern]

It’s like asking if a square is round will it roll? Christians fall, but God picks them up.

Read Mailmandan posts. He states things with great clarity

 

[Chris1975]

What I told you in post 117993 was based on what Jesus said, whoever believes will never thirst

so either Jesus lied, or someone who comes to true living faith will continue to believe forever, Ie, they never had a wish washy belief, they had true faith

once again. Lie about what I said I will report you, this is your last warning,

ps, a believer already repented, you can not referent once you already repented.

Post 117993 was clear that continuing in belief was not a requirement for your side. And I understand why you make this point. You make it because its a DONE DEAL at the start (hence OSAS kicks into effect). All can read that post. I am telling you that you are dead wrong on this point. Continuation in the faith is 100% scriptural and 100% crucial.

Colossians 1
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

How can you say Repentance is NOT a requirement going forward.

Lets look:

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It’s like asking if a square is round will it roll? Christians fall, but God picks them up.

Even a fallen christian can not live like the world, Because they are a new creation

if you make a ball square, it will no longer roll, because it is no longer a ball. You can’t make it act like one, it never will

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Post 117993 was clear that continuing in belief was not a requirement for your side. And I understand why you make this point. You make it because its a DONE DEAL at the start (hence OSAS kicks into effect). All can read that post. I am telling you that you are dead wrong on this point. Continuation in the faith is 100% scriptural and 100% crucial.

Colossians 1
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

How can you say Repentance is NOT a requirement going forward.

Lets look:

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

No

that post was clear

if contininuing believe was requires (hence, not sustainable) then what Jesus promised was a lie, because they could still thirst again
i am done with you, you are in report for continually misrepresenting what I said.

i gave you how many warning? no more

 

[Discern]

It’s like asking if a square is round will it roll? Christians fall, but God picks them up.

Its just like when in the Law. God commanded things the flesh could not keep, to show us we need grace. And then under grace, God warns us and admoishes us so that we can make our calling and election sure.

I can take Gods warnings and afmonishments and examine myself, am I in the faith

If I see that my life is not in line with Gods Word, is reprobate and I disregard all the warnings of God continually and persistently, it is time to take serious inventory

 

[Discern]

Its just like when in the Law. God commanded things the flesh could not keep, to show us we need grace. And then under grace, God warns us and admoishes us so that we can make our calling and election sure.

I can take Gods warnings and afmonishments and examine myself, am I in the faith

If I see that my life is not in line with Gods Word, is reprobate and I disregard all the warnings of God continually and persistently, it is time to take serious inventory

I will say that there is a danger of gradual drift. A little compromise here, a little compromise there, (little foxes spoil the vine) and you can gradually drift into a very serious and grievous lapse. That is why confession is so necessary, not because we need to be justified over and over again, but because it acts like brakes to stop our slide, releases us from guilty conscience, and keeps nothing between the Saviour and me.

that is why there are warnings to be diligent and watchful and of a sound and sober mind. Because if you don’t take care of your yard, weeds take over

But I personally don’t feel comfortable at all when I sin, and i never go very long without confessing and forsaking it. Were talking minutes or hours, not days, weeks or months

For example do not let the sun go down on your wrath. That means let go of it that day.

 

[dcontroversal]

Dont think that your better than orhers. Just sharing what God the Holy Spitit speaks to me, and your no better, even worse: you dont.even Love your enemies and speak against them ad if they are more mature than you and your jealous. Hopefully you will never hear from me again. That I may rest from this place.

Nothing you say has weight....and like them, you peddle some fantasy land gospel with no power...just put me on ignore or don't address me...I have danced enough with you to know you are fake and refuse to ackowledge truth!

 

[dcontroversal]

No

that post was clear

if contininuing believe was requires (hence, not sustainable) then what Jesus promised was a lie, because they could still thirst again
i am done with you, you are in report for continually misrepresenting what I said.

i gave you how many warning? no more

His modus operandi.....same with me.....constantly misrepresenting the truth.....

 

[DoY]

DoY - Dcontroversial doesn't believe that ongoing sin can have any effect on the eternal security once someone has initially accepted Christ. ...... he and others believe in Once Saved Always Saved which is positionally given AT A POINT IN TIME, ONCE AND FOREVER.

Therefore in order to maintain this position they say nobody can EVER draw back from God (even of their own accord), no-one can ever fall into Apostasy.

Thank you for your clarification. I'm relieved to find there is someone else who is not deceived by this doctrine. I used to believe this too, but since studying the Scripture for myself and not blindly believing others, I no longer do. I think we should all fight against sin in our lives....a person who thinks it's ok to sin as a Christian and is not bothering to resist temptation, but hiding behind the "Once Saved Always Saved" doctrine, might be in for a surprise.

I believe ..
* People can "fall away" (Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:38-39)
* We have to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12)
* We have to endure to the end (Matthew 24:13 - He that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved)
* Jesus said: "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit (John 15:2)
* There are mortal sins that those who commit them will not inherit the "kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21)
etc.

For this gift to be offered free to all, it cost God a great deal, how could I then dismiss it, squander it, and willfully continue in sin? Did Jesus go through all that suffering so that I can defile myself with sin? Certainly not.

 

[Discern]

UNBELIEF IS SIN. You said on post 117993 that continuing in belief was NOT REQUIRED. For then you would thirst again. Therefore living in unbelief is living in sin.

Tell me, does a believer need to REPENT?

Thank you for your clarification. I'm relieved to find there is someone else who is not deceived by this doctrine. I used to believe this too, but since studying the Scripture for myself and not blindly believing others, I no longer do. I think we should all fight against sin in our lives....a person who thinks it's ok to sin as a Christian and is not bothering to resist temptation, but hiding behind the "Once Saved Always Saved" doctrine, might be in for a surprise.

I believe ..
* People can "fall away" (Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:38-39)
* We have to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12)
* We have to endure to the end (Matthew 24:13 - He that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved)
* Jesus said: "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit (John 15:2)
* There are mortal sins that those who commit them will not inherit the "kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21)
etc.

For this gift to be offered free to all, it cost God a great deal, how could I then dismiss it, squander it, and willfully continue in sin? Did Jesus go through all that suffering so that I can defile myself with sin? Certainly not.

Please read post 119,338 and tell me if the person who posted there believes it’s ok to defile oneself with sin.

 

[Discern]

Nope

i just have to believe what John said and what Jesus said

jesus said whoever believes will never hunger, those are jesus words, not mine

john said whoever leaves in unbelief as an antichrist was never of us (saved). Those are johns words not mine

john said whoever lives in sin has never seen or known god those are johns words not mine

according to you, both Jesus and John lied,

I do not have to twist what they say, I take them at their word

I don’t know how anyone can read these words and think this man is saying we can sin all we want and still be saved. The words are so plain and clear! Look closely at the third through fifth paragraph. Starting with the word Jesus. Look and read carefully.

Guys, slow down and read what he said.

And please look at who agreed.

 

[DoY]

Please read post 119,338 and tell me if the person who posted there believes it’s ok to defile oneself with sin.

Why? I wasn't responding to 119,338.

 

[Discern]

Why? I wasn't responding to 119,338.

But that is the position of the people that are being accused of teaching “can sin all you want salvation”.

Read it. They are saying the exact opposite.

 

[DoY]

Cool....and the bible teaches a dual usage of sanctification....positionally and eternally in Christ is 1st....the 2nd as you describe....an ongoing process subject to growth, maturity, transformation dia study and subject successes and or failures, but salvation, justification, positional salctification and the sealing by the H.S. are all eternally secure in Christ!

Do I understand you correctly? Please clarify if I'm misunderstanding.
You believe that Salvation is "irrevocable" regardless of your actions AFTER you accept Christ?
So, you take the free gift and there's NOTHING you can do to "lose it" if you don't want it any more?
You basically lose your free will because you're "sealed" and it's a done deal?

 

[VCO]

This looks like the Oregon Coast to Me.

 

[Discern]

Do I understand you correctly? Please clarify if I'm misunderstanding.
You believe that Salvation is "irrevocable" regardless of your actions AFTER you accept Christ?
So, you take the free gift and there's NOTHING you can do to "lose it" if you don't want it any more?
You basically lose your free will because you're "sealed" and it's a done deal?

Isn’t rejecting God a fruit of spiritual death? Isn’t that a mark of a person who has no life in them? And no Light in them?

 

[DoY]

Isn’t rejecting God a fruit of spiritual death? Isn’t that a mark of a person who has no life in them?

Definitely. So is willful sin.

 

[Discern]

Definitely. So is willful sin.

God has raised us to spiritual life. We no longer abide in death.

Do we sin? Yes. 1 John 1:8

But we do not abide in death, but in life. No one who willfully and habitually sins as a chosen lifestyle knows God. EG already said it

 

[Discern]

So with this in mind, lets come back to the original questions posed to DCON:

1) Can ongoing sin in a believers life have any impact on eternal security (Y/N)?
2) If the answer to point 1 is No , then is such a person free to do anything (murder/rape, lie and steal) (Y/N)?
3) If the answer to Q2 above is "No" then what what are the maximum implications if they do such things as highlighted in Q2?
4) I asserted you say that once you believe at a single point in history you are from that point eternally secure. Is this person required to CONTINUALLY BELIEVE in Christ to obtain salvation, or are they free to stop believing and still have their salvation secure?

You already answered the first question by quoting 1 John 3:6

AMPLIFIED BIBLE
1 John 3
6 No one who abides in Him [who remains united in fellowship with Him—deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin. No one who habitually sins has seen Him or known Him.

This clears up all of the confusion as to what is means by John 1 John 3v6. It talking about a lifestyle of sin (habitually) and not once off.

One who habitually sins (lifestyle of sin) has not seen Him or known Him. Exactly what Eternally Grateful keeps saying.

 

[EleventhHour]

Nothing you say has weight....and like them, you peddle some fantasy land gospel with no power...just put me on ignore or don't address me...I have danced enough with you to know you are fake and refuse to ackowledge truth!

Did some one mention DANCE!!