Not By Works
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No works salvation from me, buddy.
Hebrews 3:1, Hebrews 3:14. Hebrews 6:4, Hebrews 12:10, 1 Peter 4:13, 2 Peter 1:4, etc,
We are saved by faith alone, and having been saved we have become partakers of Christ. We are not saved by becoming partakers, we become partakers when we are saved by God's grace through faith.
Hebrews 3:1, Hebrews 3:14. Hebrews 6:4, Hebrews 12:10, 1 Peter 4:13, 2 Peter 1:4, etc,
We are saved by faith alone, and having been saved we have become partakers of Christ. We are not saved by becoming partakers, we become partakers when we are saved by God's grace through faith.
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Yes .. it is true... I am thankful for this ....I have never even come close to giving it any consideration... I remember working for the Salvation Army one summer and they tried.. that was the first knowledge I had of conditional security.
It seemed very strange to me to they could believe that salvation was conditional.... and they are called the "Salvation" Army...
It seemed very strange to me to they could believe that salvation was conditional.... and they are called the "Salvation" Army...
I remember I ALMOST got hooked into the False Prophet KENNETH COPELAND when I was FIRST SAVED.
Can you imagine where that would have lead me ?
I am so GLAD HE led me to some of the best OSAS Bible Teachers in the LAND. AMEN. They really got me GROUNDED in the WORD!
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I did not flip the condition and consequence. I left the protasis and apododis as they stood. The apodosis is we have been made partakers, and the protasis is if we hold fast.
Hebrews 3:14 is saying the same thing as Hebrews 3:6. And everyone who believes is of Christ’s house, right?
It is not a first class condition, because the writer of Hebrews knew that not everyone who read his epistle would be saved
Lots of unsaved people read Hebrews, then and now
Hebrews 3:14 is saying the same thing as Hebrews 3:6. And everyone who believes is of Christ’s house, right?
It is not a first class condition, because the writer of Hebrews knew that not everyone who read his epistle would be saved
Lots of unsaved people read Hebrews, then and now
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Titus 1:15 - To the pure all things are pure, (IN CONTRAST WITH) but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. - Descriptive of unbelievers.
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Believers walk according to the Spirit BECAUSE they are in Christ Jesus and not in order to be in Christ Jesus. So does not walk according to the flesh is a confirmation that one is in Christ Jesus and not a condition in order to be in Christ Jesus. You must not confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages for scripture.
Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
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As I already previously explained in Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Greek verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.
The verb is uses the perfect tense (Greek gegonamen). There is nothing here that implies we will become or will remain partakers of Christ if we hold fast to the end.
The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. Notice that the perfect tense carries two ideas: (1) completed action and (2) continuing results. The action was completed at some time in the past, and the results continue up to the present.
Wuest - "The evidence of the fact that the recipient is saved, is that he retains his profession of faith in Messiah under the stress of persecution, not going back to the 1st Covenant sacrificial system and works orientation of the Pharisees. (Heb 3:12-14). The question is not one of the retention of salvation based upon a persistence of faith, but of the possession of salvation as evidenced by a continuation of faith." The translation reads, therefore, “For we became partakers of Messiah with the present result that we are partakers of Him.” That is, if these first-century Jews would maintain their faith in Messiah to the end of their lives, that would show that they had become in the past partakers of Messiah, and that as a present result they were partakers of Him. Again as in Hebrews 3:6, the question is not one of the retention of salvation based upon a persistence of faith, but of the possession of salvation as evidenced by a continuation of faith. The perfect tense reaches back into the past and then speaks of the present. It is not the future of these Jews that the writer is concerned about here, but he is concerned as to whether in times past and as a result at the time of the writing of the epistle they were partakers of salvation in Messiah. (Hebrews - Wuest's word studies from the Greek New Testament )
The verb is uses the perfect tense (Greek gegonamen). There is nothing here that implies we will become or will remain partakers of Christ if we hold fast to the end.
The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. Notice that the perfect tense carries two ideas: (1) completed action and (2) continuing results. The action was completed at some time in the past, and the results continue up to the present.
Wuest - "The evidence of the fact that the recipient is saved, is that he retains his profession of faith in Messiah under the stress of persecution, not going back to the 1st Covenant sacrificial system and works orientation of the Pharisees. (Heb 3:12-14). The question is not one of the retention of salvation based upon a persistence of faith, but of the possession of salvation as evidenced by a continuation of faith." The translation reads, therefore, “For we became partakers of Messiah with the present result that we are partakers of Him.” That is, if these first-century Jews would maintain their faith in Messiah to the end of their lives, that would show that they had become in the past partakers of Messiah, and that as a present result they were partakers of Him. Again as in Hebrews 3:6, the question is not one of the retention of salvation based upon a persistence of faith, but of the possession of salvation as evidenced by a continuation of faith. The perfect tense reaches back into the past and then speaks of the present. It is not the future of these Jews that the writer is concerned about here, but he is concerned as to whether in times past and as a result at the time of the writing of the epistle they were partakers of salvation in Messiah. (Hebrews - Wuest's word studies from the Greek New Testament )
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Hebrews 3:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.
Third class conditional sentence. We are (presently) God's house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and hope
6 But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.
Third class conditional sentence. We are (presently) God's house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and hope
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Is Judges1318 using the "verb forms and moods in the passage" argument in order to try and change Hebrews 3:6 and Hebrews 3:14 into either we "will become" or we "will remain" His house/partakers of Christ if we hold fast to the end? He seems determined to accommodate his biased NOSAS agenda at all costs.
He seems determined to accommodate his biased NOSAS agenda at all costs. -
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Is Judges1318 using the "verb forms and moods in the passage" argument in order to try and change Hebrews 3:6 and Hebrews 3:14 into either we "will become" or we "will remain" His house/partakers of Christ if we hold fast to the end? He seems determined to accommodate his biased NOSAS agenda at all costs.
He seems determined to accommodate his biased NOSAS agenda at all costs.
I do not see the word "become" or "remain" in the text.
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