Not By Works
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I think there are two or more camps of osas that answer questions differently. Those who believe the p in tulip and those that reject it are very different, and answer questions like these very differently.
We don’t know who’s saved and who’s not. Someone could keep up appearances their whole life, and die lost.
I have a question for everyone. If a person, say like Bart Eerman, says they used to be a believer, but then turns around and says the Gospels are not reliable, and that Jesus did not rise from the dead.
Do you believe a person who has been born of God can do such
For osas and nosas alike.
(Probably a nosas person thinks it can happen, and some would think “ no return” and others that he could return to faith. I wonder what osas of a different persuasion than mine would say. )
We don’t know who’s saved and who’s not. Someone could keep up appearances their whole life, and die lost.
I have a question for everyone. If a person, say like Bart Eerman, says they used to be a believer, but then turns around and says the Gospels are not reliable, and that Jesus did not rise from the dead.
Do you believe a person who has been born of God can do such
For osas and nosas alike.
(Probably a nosas person thinks it can happen, and some would think “ no return” and others that he could return to faith. I wonder what osas of a different persuasion than mine would say. )
So the question is, (for all). Can a person who has been born of God fall so far that they would publically deny Christ and the Gospel entirely, even to the point of denying the resurrection
I find it unfathomable, but we have an epidemic of people who claim to have been Christians doing that all over the world, especially in the west
I think most just thought they knew God, but is it most or all or do not know
I find it unfathomable, but we have an epidemic of people who claim to have been Christians doing that all over the world, especially in the west
I think most just thought they knew God, but is it most or all or do not know
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If someone I once considered a brother did this... it would be far easier to believe he was never a brother than believe "oh this is just his flesh acting out".... but I cant see what God can see
I believe Peter denied Jesus out of fear.....
I couldn't imagine doing this...
I can only imagine me standing and calling Jesus Lord until I die... but I'm sure Peter would've said the same thing the day before he did it
I don't feel confident to say this imaginary person can definitely fall so far
But I do feel confident saying that if this person was Gods child and did those things God would not let this happen easily and this person would face.... a very unstable and maybe short season if he were to behave like this (The Holy spirit .. his new heart and all his knowledge would be against what his flesh is doing or saying)
I wouldnt be surprised if God took one like this home early or used Him as an example while he was still here through many trials directly tied to his actions.....
I also wouldn't be surprised if this person is met with such a powerful and merciful lesson during this season they do a complete 180 in gratitude
(whatever God did it would be the best thing)
interesting question
I believe Peter denied Jesus out of fear.....
I couldn't imagine doing this...
I can only imagine me standing and calling Jesus Lord until I die... but I'm sure Peter would've said the same thing the day before he did it
I don't feel confident to say this imaginary person can definitely fall so far
But I do feel confident saying that if this person was Gods child and did those things God would not let this happen easily and this person would face.... a very unstable and maybe short season if he were to behave like this (The Holy spirit .. his new heart and all his knowledge would be against what his flesh is doing or saying)
I wouldnt be surprised if God took one like this home early or used Him as an example while he was still here through many trials directly tied to his actions.....
I also wouldn't be surprised if this person is met with such a powerful and merciful lesson during this season they do a complete 180 in gratitude
(whatever God did it would be the best thing)
interesting question
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The problem is everyone is trying to answer this in an 'either/or, black&white' way. And that, IMO, is a mistake.
According to the Parable of the Sower, it depends on what kind of soil the word is planted in, and to what extent of suffering and/or prosperity the word is exposed to that determines if you will retain the word of God planted in you to the very end with little or no chance of losing it.
There are mature believers who will never renounce the kingdom of God, even under threat of death, and there are those who because of immaturity may renounce the kingdom of God at the next broken finger nail (more hyperbole, lol). What God is doing is warning us along the way to maturity to not lose the word planted in us which can save us and to become more and more the kind of soil in which the word of God perseveres no matter what conditions the soil is exposed to. This by far is the more useful and practical and edifying approach to this matter of once saved always saved.
Think of Simon, who in a similar analogy, started out on shifting sands and denied him out of fear of persecution, but who ended up as Peter, solid as the Rock of Jesus himself who, like Jesus, did not refuse to be crucified. It think it more wise to look at never being able to lose your salvation as a progression, not a one-time state settled at the moment of conversion.
According to the Parable of the Sower, it depends on what kind of soil the word is planted in, and to what extent of suffering and/or prosperity the word is exposed to that determines if you will retain the word of God planted in you to the very end with little or no chance of losing it.
There are mature believers who will never renounce the kingdom of God, even under threat of death, and there are those who because of immaturity may renounce the kingdom of God at the next broken finger nail (more hyperbole, lol). What God is doing is warning us along the way to maturity to not lose the word planted in us which can save us and to become more and more the kind of soil in which the word of God perseveres no matter what conditions the soil is exposed to. This by far is the more useful and practical and edifying approach to this matter of once saved always saved.
Think of Simon, who in a similar analogy, started out on shifting sands and denied him out of fear of persecution, but who ended up as Peter, solid as the Rock of Jesus himself who, like Jesus, did not refuse to be crucified. It think it more wise to look at never being able to lose your salvation as a progression, not a one-time state settled at the moment of conversion.
Another very good answer.
The early church faced a similar question with the Donatists, with the Donatist controversy and what to do with people who denied Christ under persecution , but repented. I think the church chose the right path in this case.
I wonder if todays western Christianity is armored up enough to be ready when the real persecution from without, which I think is on the way, and the widespread compromise in the church on certain issues (attack from the inside, which is already in process, but increasing) hits full force
We need to be ready. Because if we can’t keep up with the foot soldiers now, what about when we have to run with the horsemen
The early church faced a similar question with the Donatists, with the Donatist controversy and what to do with people who denied Christ under persecution , but repented. I think the church chose the right path in this case.
I wonder if todays western Christianity is armored up enough to be ready when the real persecution from without, which I think is on the way, and the widespread compromise in the church on certain issues (attack from the inside, which is already in process, but increasing) hits full force
We need to be ready. Because if we can’t keep up with the foot soldiers now, what about when we have to run with the horsemen
These clowns absolutely CANNOT grasp the fact that JESUS is the SOURCE of genuine faith.....
He gifts it FREELY and IRREVOCABLY
HE BEGINS IT in US
HE FINISHES it IN US
HE COMPLETES it IN US
and
WE are KEPT by HIS POWER through the ABOVE FAITH
WE are SAVED to the UTTERMOST
THE FREE GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE is IRREVOCABLY GIVEN
WE are HELD IN HIS HAND and the Heavenly Father's HAND
We are SEALED UNTO the day of REDEMPTION <---NOT until we fail or maybe lose faith
EVEN if WE believe NOT after FAITH, HE ABIDES faithful because HE cannot deny HIMSELF <-HIS FAITH GIVEN TO US
We are JUSTIFIED eternally BY THE ABOVE FAITH
and on and on and on
THESE jokers that say it can be lost or forfeit STATE clearly that the JESUS they follow and worship IS NOT the JESUS of the BIBLE and the following is clear
To the one which does not WORK, BUT BELIEVES on him that JUSTIFIES the UNGODLY, HIS FAITH is CREDITED to righteousness.
He gifts it FREELY and IRREVOCABLY
HE BEGINS IT in US
HE FINISHES it IN US
HE COMPLETES it IN US
and
WE are KEPT by HIS POWER through the ABOVE FAITH
WE are SAVED to the UTTERMOST
THE FREE GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE is IRREVOCABLY GIVEN
WE are HELD IN HIS HAND and the Heavenly Father's HAND
We are SEALED UNTO the day of REDEMPTION <---NOT until we fail or maybe lose faith
EVEN if WE believe NOT after FAITH, HE ABIDES faithful because HE cannot deny HIMSELF <-HIS FAITH GIVEN TO US
We are JUSTIFIED eternally BY THE ABOVE FAITH
and on and on and on
THESE jokers that say it can be lost or forfeit STATE clearly that the JESUS they follow and worship IS NOT the JESUS of the BIBLE and the following is clear
To the one which does not WORK, BUT BELIEVES on him that JUSTIFIES the UNGODLY, HIS FAITH is CREDITED to righteousness.
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Ralph, Fran, Sea Perch and the 7th "dayer" from AU ALL peddle the same drivel.....Judges, which uses the same verbiage as RALPH is no different.....same false dogma, same religious hoop jumping and same result....NO POWER in what they peddle which leads to the MANY group JESUS identifies as not being known by HIM
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MY MISTAKE! I read your post WRONG. Senioritus struck again. I read your post totally WRONG.
EleventhHour SAID:
For salvation or sanctification?
Not a fan of Jacob either btw,
How ever I read it as:
EleventhHour Supposedly SAID:
For salvation or sanctification?
Not a fan of either btw, 🡨 My Mistake, Sorry.
Oh, am I going to hate getting older.
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Here are some more for the clown show that deny positional sanctification IN CHRIST......The peddlers of false dogma are rank and file deep on this site....they devalue JESUS regularly by the religious inept rejection of truth, verb tense, context and the very verbiage and definitions of the words given in scripture.
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
And may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith
For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
And may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith
For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
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@RebuildJesussChurch you can laugh now PAL.....but make no mistake....in the day of your calamity you will not be laughing......but rather begging, weeping, crying......
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