What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

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GaryA said:
This is not during the GT.

I will try to address it later.
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Yes it is.

Here is what the context is.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

No way it is NOT the gt setting
 
GaryA said:
What? Do you think Jesus "runs around" collecting all of His saints?

Has it ever occurred to you that Jesus might command the angels to "gather" His saints?

In the context - 'heaven' can be the atmosphere - referring to a "full-coverage" of the Earth.
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The. Rapture is Jesus gathering.
Could be alongside angels.
But not angels sent by themselves as is depicted in the mat 24 gathering from heaven.

For some reason you need it to be exactly the same.
It is not
 
GaryA said:
If I happen to write in one of my posts that someone/anyone/everyone should look something up or do there own research --- don't you dare tell me:

"Oh - but, that is just simply not good enough. You absolutely must spoonfeed all of us with a long list of references and evidence for every little teeny-tiny speck of anything that has anything to do with anything that might be in any way associated with what you stated. Because, I shouldn't have to lift a finger to do anything to help myself understand anything I read - because, that is your responsibility and not mine."

Absolutely:

I did not write this post specifically for you; rather, it is an "intentional reaction" (reactionary, but a rational disciplined one without anger) that was/is "triggered" by your post.

Everyone:

I absolutely "despise it" when other people demand things that they will not do themselves.

Despite what some on here seem to think, there is no mandatory requirement for an exhaustive every-detail leave-no-rock-unturned explanation for every single nuance of every statement made in a post - that must be included in every post along with each-and-every statement.

The general default format for threads on this site (and, in fact - to my knowledge - most forum sites) is 'discussion'.

So - have a discussion. And, if you would like more information to clarify or "backup" what someone says - simply ask for it - "nicely" will go a long way.

Don't tell people (or insinuate) that what they said in a particular post (or, possibly, anything they ever say in any post) cannot possibly have any merit whatsoever - just because they did not include the massive book of information that is the "backup" for a statement they made - with the statement in the same post.

With the possible exception of a few on CC ;), nobody wants to quote the whole Bible in every post.

I tend to quote only the verses I feel are necessary to illustrate whatever idea or point I am trying to get across.

If I put no scripture in a post to back up a statement, it generally means one of these things:

1) The scripture I might reference is very well-known to the discussion-at-hand - or, may have been quoted recently-in-the-thread - or some such thing that should not require that it be quoted in that post.

2) There is way too much scripture and/or study required so as to make entirely too impractical to quote it in that post.

3) Sometimes, it simply is not required to "add reference material" to have a productive discussion while trying to get an idea or point across.

It is very rare that a single post can offer all-available-proof for something - the issues being discussed are too complex.

That is what give-and-take discussion is for.

Grow up. Be an adult. Have a conversation. Be nice. Don't get too impatient...

If you just knew how long it sometimes takes me to write posts on this infernal [dumb] "smart" phone that I am "cursed" to have to use for now --- you would probably begin to understand what I am saying all-the-better.

Some people - for different reasons - will tend to not write more than is required to get the [current] idea or point across. Try to be patient with them.

I just can't wait to get my computer - with a real keyboard - set up again.
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Normally when i say look it up it is to someone with some debunked position.
Like "nowhere did the church fathers believe in a pretrib rapture"

They are being emphatic on a debunked cause.

So "look it up yourself" stops all the nonsense of me having to show them over and over that their deal is debunked.
 
Absolutely said:
There is no resurrection at the 2nd coming after the gt.

Rev 14 has two harvest gatherings of Gods people BEFORE the second coming.
The living DO NOT precede the dead.
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The Second Coming is at least 3.5 years after the end of the GT.

The first of the two "reapings" at the end of Revelation 14 is the Rapture. The second is referring to the Wrath of God being "poured out" upon all of those who are left after the first reaping.
 
GaryA said:
I will try to post something later on sometime - when I have the time...

In the meanwhile, consider this:

There is no U-turn.
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I say there is no U-turn because the use of the term by most people carries with it the implication that the reverse direction takes place immediately after the initial direction.

Jesus does not do a U-turn at all.

After the saints are raptured, they remain with Jesus in the air "for the duration" until Jesus has accomplished all that He desires to do before descending further down to the Earth - mainly, "dishing out" the Wrath of God upon the Earth - which, in timeline/event terms, is fairly short - but, not as immediate as is implied by the use of the term 'U-turn'.
 
GaryA said:
I say there is no U-turn because the use of the term by most people carries with it the implication that the reverse direction takes place immediately after the initial direction.

Jesus does not do a U-turn at all.

After the saints are raptured, they remain with Jesus in the air "for the duration" until Jesus has accomplished all that He desires to do before descending further down to the Earth - mainly, "dishing out" the Wrath of God upon the Earth - which, in timeline/event terms, is fairly short - but, not as immediate as is implied by the use of the term 'U-turn'.
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do you believe after this saints come down with Jesus and Jesus starts millennium kingdom?
 
TooFastTurtle said:
Does that mean you are pre-trib? No I read your other post that would suggest otherwise. Perhaps you are one who advocates we will go to heaven and there is no millennium? Sorry I do not mean to label you, just not sure what you believe.
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I believe that Olivet Discourse and Revelation prophecy have been "unfolding" over the past ~2000 years. It is neither all in the past nor all in the future.
 
Absolutely said:
Here's one DURING THE GT;
REV14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

HMMMMMM
You were sayin?
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Please see post #749.
 
Absolutely said:
Normally when i say look it up it is to someone with some debunked position.
Like "nowhere did the church fathers believe in a pretrib rapture"

They are being emphatic on a debunked cause.

So "look it up yourself" stops all the nonsense of me having to show them over and over that their deal is debunked.
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I understand.
 
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