sabbath

[garee]

I am not talking about gathering, I am talking about what the Rome did to separate themselves from the Jewish people, they wanted nothing to do with the Jews and when can see this from the Scriptures, they were persecuting the Jews. I am not talking about the laws of sacrificing animals, that was fulfilled by Yeshua once and form all.

Where can I send you a file I wrote in a PDF form, you can read it and respond, I have other information on it.

Many say that the Sabbath is done away with, but they cannot substantiate their view with through the Scriptures.

I would agree with the Rome mention .It had nothing to do with the gospel

Other than e mail I would not know how. My wife is more sensitive with information.

As far as "done away" with.It must be defined. What is done away with.. . a certain day, a shadow ?

Moral law or a ceremonial law they must be divided as well as how the word "keep" is used in the Bible.

Again the word sabbath is not time sensitive .Changing the meaning of a word can violate the warning in Deuteronomy 4:2 that does protect the integrity of the author.

All of the ceremonial laws under the time period of Kings in Israel were used as a parable for the time then present. The walls, the furniture, the animals, the altar, the veil. Each one as a shadow served a particular purpose of preaching the gospel as to the "suffering of Christ before hand and the glory that did follow". . . The time of reformation has come. . the shadows (ceremonial laws ) came into view as a one time demonstration to the whole world to walk by faith that alone comes from hearing the voice of God and not that of men. They as us received the end of their gift of new faith from the first hearing.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter1:9-11

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

I would agree with the Rome mention .It had nothing to do with the gospel

Other than e mail I would not know how. My wife is more sensitive with information.

As far as "done away" with.It must be defined. What is done away with.. . a certain day, a shadow ?

Moral law or a ceremonial law they must be divided as well as how the word "keep" is used in the Bible.

Again the word sabbath is not time sensitive .Changing the meaning of a word can violate the warning in Deuteronomy 4:2 that does protect the integrity of the author.

All of the ceremonial laws under the time period of Kings in Israel were used as a parable for the time then present. The walls, the furniture, the animals, the altar, the veil. Each one as a shadow served a particular purpose of preaching the gospel as to the "suffering of Christ before hand and the glory that did follow". . . The time of reformation has come. . the shadows (ceremonial laws ) came into view as a one time demonstration to the whole world to walk by faith that alone comes from hearing the voice of God and not that of men. They as us received the end of their gift of new faith from the first hearing.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter1:9-11

Christian brethens takes the phrase "done away" as meaning the law of God are no longer to be kept, but keeping the law has nothing to do with Salvation and neither does it have anything to do with justifying one and making them God's righteousness. Christian brethren they tied it up together to support that they believe, but that view is not what is taught from the Scriptures.

 

[Grandpa]

Read the entire verse... Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. There are many things that have been fulfilled, like the sacrifice of animal and what was not fulfill will fulfilled, this has nothing to do with removing the Sabbath, one say it will be fulfill the way God intended. My previously post to you I explained it the way I am seeing it, but I will do a little more reading and get back.

Yes. Read the verse.

NOT One jot or one tittle will fall.

So if your belief is that the law still governs you then you are under EVERY JOT and TITTLE of it. Because not one jot or one tittle will fall until heaven and earth pass.

But if you believe that the Lord Jesus has fulfilled SOME of the jots and tittles then it must be YOUR UNDERSTANDING that is lacking if you don't believe that the WHOLE LAW is fulfilled. Or you just don't believe what the Lord has said.


Sacrifice of animals was fulfilled.

Sabbath was fulfilled.

The Whole Law was fulfilled.

The Lord SAID it would be that way. He NEVER said that He would partially fulfill it and then later maybe come fulfill some more of it.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Yes. Read the verse.

NOT One jot or one tittle will fall.

So if your belief is that the law still governs you then you are under EVERY JOT and TITTLE of it. Because not one jot or one tittle will fall until heaven and earth pass.

But if you believe that the Lord Jesus has fulfilled SOME of the jots and tittles then it must be YOUR UNDERSTANDING that is lacking if you don't believe that the WHOLE LAW is fulfilled. Or you just don't believe what the Lord has said.


Sacrifice of animals was fulfilled.

Sabbath was fulfilled.

The Whole Law was fulfilled.

The Lord SAID it would be that way. He NEVER said that He would partially fulfill it and then later maybe come fulfill some more of it.

To explain Mathew 5:18, I will refer you to Mathew 24:35 where it says Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away, Question, did heaven and earth passed away yet and when it passes away will God's word pass away according to this verse? No!

You are distorting Mathew 5:18 by pulling it out of context. Why don't you continue to read the entire chapter, Yeshua elaborates on the commandments, Adultery is now committed with the lust of the eyes, murder is now committed by hating your brother, does this sound like the law of God are done away with? No! The Psalmist says, the law of the LORD are perfect, my question to you, if they are perfect why would God do away with laws that are perfect. The Psalmist also says, they are upheld forever and ever, enacted in truth and uprightness. In other words, Yeshua never stated that the law are done away with, but man have always deliberately distorted the word of God and apparently people like you have been deceived and I state this respectfully.

One jot and and one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled, means that when all is fufilled it will be all completed, but God's word is forever according the Mathew 24:35. If you read the prior chapters to Mathew 5, you will see that Yeshua has fulfill many things that was spoken of him. What was fulfilled does not mean that a jot and a tittle was removed, it is just fulfilled.

About being govern by the law, a teacher of the law approached Yeshua and asked, what must I do to have eternal like, you said, you tell me and he answered love they God will all thy heart, soul, mind and might, and love thy neighbor as thyself. Yeshua responded, well said, do this and though shall live. He understood that the fulfillment of the 10 commandments was to keep two laws and the Scriptures tell us that if we walk after the Spirit the Spirit will fulfill the righteousness of the law. Not that the Law makes us God's righteousness and not that keeping the commandments earns one salvation, because if it did Yeshua did not then have to die on the cross. We are save by grace through faith alone and justify and made God's righteousness in Yeshua apart from the law which I am sure you will agree with me on this. We need no more priest to offer sacrifices, Yeshua did it once and for all, one needs not to stone an person if they commit adultery, Yeshua took the curse of the law to the cross, but not the law. I will say this, those who are committed adultery, committing murders the curse of the law will condemn them which is why they will be permanently separated from the presence of God in eternal damnation.

If the whole law is fulfilled you need to tear and trash many pages for your bible and you will have to explain Luke 24:44, you can read my respond to forrestgreen cook.

So, before you start throwing verses please read the chapter, because that is what everyone does so support their distorted view, they pull verses our of context, not to mention, when they are question they do not respond according.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Yes. Read the verse.

NOT One jot or one tittle will fall.

So if your belief is that the law still governs you then you are under EVERY JOT and TITTLE of it. Because not one jot or one tittle will fall until heaven and earth pass.

But if you believe that the Lord Jesus has fulfilled SOME of the jots and tittles then it must be YOUR UNDERSTANDING that is lacking if you don't believe that the WHOLE LAW is fulfilled. Or you just don't believe what the Lord has said.


Sacrifice of animals was fulfilled.

Sabbath was fulfilled.

The Whole Law was fulfilled.

The Lord SAID it would be that way. He NEVER said that He would partially fulfill it and then later maybe come fulfill some more of it.

This is the corrected respond to what I first wrote, I was correcting spelling and it had to be done in 5 minutes...

To explain Mathew 5:18, I will refer you to Mathew 24:35 where it says Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away, Question, did heaven and earth passed away yet and when it passes away will God's word pass away according to this verse? No!

You are distorting Mathew 5:18 by pulling it out of context. Why don't you continue to read the entire chapter, Yeshua elaborates on the commandments, Adultery is now committed with the lust of the eyes, murder is now committed by hating your brother, does this sound like the law of God are done away with? No! The Psalmist says, the law of the LORD are perfect, my question to you, if they are perfect why would God do away with laws that are perfect. The Psalmist also says, they are upheld forever and ever, enacted in truth and uprightness. In other words, Yeshua never stated that the law are done away with, but man have always deliberately distorted the word of God and apparently people like you have been deceived and I state this respectfully.

One jot and one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled, means that when all is fulfilled it will be all completed, but God's word is forever according the Mathew 24:35. If you read the prior chapters to Mathew 5, you will see that Yeshua has fulfilled many things that was spoken of him. What was fulfilled does not mean that a jot and a tittle was removed, it is just fulfilled.

About being governed by the law, a teacher of the law approached Yeshua and asked what must I do to have eternal like, you said, you tell me, and he answered love thy God will all thy heart, soul, mind and might, and love thy neighbor as thyself. Yeshua responded, well said, do this and though shall live. He understood that the fulfillment of the 10 commandments was to keep two laws and the Scriptures tell us that if we walk after the Spirit, the Spirit will fulfill the righteousness of the law. Not that the Law makes us God's righteousness and not that keeping the commandments earns one salvation, because if it did Yeshua did not then have to die on the cross. We are saved by grace through faith alone and justify and made God's righteousness in Yeshua apart from the law which I am sure you will agree with me on this. We need no more priest to offer sacrifices, Yeshua did it once and for all, one needs not to stone an person if they commit adultery, Yeshua took the curse of the law to the cross, but not the law. I will say this, those who are committed adultery, committing murders the curse of the law will condemn them which is why they will be permanently separated from the presence of God in eternal damnation. Question, Yeahua was God's righteousness and he kept the law, didn't he? Wasn't he accused of breaking the law"

If the whole law is fulfilled you need to tear and trash many pages for your bible and you will have to explain Luke 24:44, you can read my response to forrestgreen cook.

So, before you start throwing verses please read the chapters, because that is what everyone does who support their distorted view, they pull verses out of context, not to mention, when they are question they do not respond accordingly. Respectfully.

 

[Grandpa]

Has ALL been fulfilled?
Maybe read the Beatitudes, chapters 5,6, and 7, in The Book of Matthew. Notice anything there? Sound familiar?

Obviously, it has ALL been fulfilled.

Or Christ lied.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Are you sacrificing animals for atonement of your sin?

Probably not. Because Christ fulfilled that part of the law. No arguments with that one.


SO if SOME of the jots and tittles have passed and you no longer observe them, what does Christ say about the rest of them??? He says not one jot or tittle will fall until ALL is fulfilled.


So did you make a mistake in thinking that some of the jots and tittles were fulfilled but not all? Or did you make a mistake in thinking that none of the law is fulfilled and therefore you need to start sacrificing animals again??


Maybe, instead of arguing how All the law is NOT fulfilled, you should find out how All the law IS fulfilled in Christ.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

This scripture, as well as many others, are made meaningless if all the law is not fulfilled in Christ.

 

[Grandpa]

To explain Mathew 5:18, I will refer you to Mathew 24:35 where it says Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away, Question, did heaven and earth passed away yet and when it passes away will God's word pass away according to this verse? No!

You are distorting Mathew 5:18 by pulling it out of context. Why don't you continue to read the entire chapter, Yeshua elaborates on the commandments, Adultery is now committed with the lust of the eyes, murder is now committed by hating your brother, does this sound like the law of God are done away with? No! The Psalmist says, the law of the LORD are perfect, my question to you, if they are perfect why would God do away with laws that are perfect. The Psalmist also says, they are upheld forever and ever, enacted in truth and uprightness. In other words, Yeshua never stated that the law are done away with, but man have always deliberately distorted the word of God and apparently people like you have been deceived and I state this respectfully.

One jot and and one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled, means that when all is fufilled it will be all completed, but God's word is forever according the Mathew 24:35. If you read the prior chapters to Mathew 5, you will see that Yeshua has fulfill many things that was spoken of him. What was fulfilled does not mean that a jot and a tittle was removed, it is just fulfilled.

About being govern by the law, a teacher of the law approached Yeshua and asked, what must I do to have eternal like, you said, you tell me and he answered love they God will all thy heart, soul, mind and might, and love thy neighbor as thyself. Yeshua responded, well said, do this and though shall live. He understood that the fulfillment of the 10 commandments was to keep two laws and the Scriptures tell us that if we walk after the Spirit the Spirit will fulfill the righteousness of the law. Not that the Law makes us God's righteousness and not that keeping the commandments earns one salvation, because if it did Yeshua did not then have to die on the cross. We are save by grace through faith alone and justify and made God's righteousness in Yeshua apart from the law which I am sure you will agree with me on this. We need no more priest to offer sacrifices, Yeshua did it once and for all, one needs not to stone an person if they commit adultery, Yeshua took the curse of the law to the cross, but not the law. I will say this, those who are committed adultery, committing murders the curse of the law will condemn them which is why they will be permanently separated from the presence of God in eternal damnation.

If the whole law is fulfilled you need to tear and trash many pages for your bible and you will have to explain Luke 24:44, you can read my respond to forrestgreen cook.

So, before you start throwing verses please read the chapter, because that is what everyone does so support their distorted view, they pull verses our of context, not to mention, when they are question they do not respond according.

If you are no longer killing animals for the atonement of your sin then SOME jots and tittles have passed.

According to the words of Christ what does this mean?

It means ALL HAS BEEN FULFILLED. Otherwise, you are calling Christ a liar. Or He is mistaken. And so Paul and Peter are also mistaken.

Is that what you are saying? That the New Testament is mistaken?

 

[Grandpa]

If the whole law is fulfilled you need to tear and trash many pages for your bible and you will have to explain Luke 24:44, you can read my response to forrestgreen cook.

So, before you start throwing verses please read the chapters, because that is what everyone does who support their distorted view, they pull verses out of context, not to mention, when they are question they do not respond accordingly. Respectfully.

Luke 24:44-47
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

If the Lord Jesus Christ did NOT fulfill all the law why does He say that He did in Luke 24:44??

Because all things MUST BE fulfilled which were written about Christ, He was made to suffer and rise from the dead the 3rd day.


Remission of sins cannot be preached in the name of Christ if Christ did not fulfill the law. That's not the way the law worked/works.

 

[Blik]

Why argue this at all? Those who do not keep the Sabbath are as entitled as those who do. Sabbath is sundown Friday unto sundown Saturday.
Remember the passage that tells you it is of no matter?
16.Therefore let no one sit in judgment on you in matters of food and drink, or with regard to a feast day or a New Moon or a Sabbath.
The Book of Colossians chapter 2


I think the mistake we make in discussions like this is thinking we have to change someones mind about a thing. The Sabbath , in this case.
No, we're not duty bound to do that. On either side of this particular question or any topic in Apologetics, Soteriology, etc...
God isn't going to condemn a Christian Sabbath keeper.

I think the Lord is helping with your thinking. God is love, and God tells us love is the most important, not dates and seasons.

People who decide to keep the last day of the week are doing it because they find those instructions in scripture and those who decide to keep the first day of the week are doing it because man decides it is the day to keep and rather than obeying what scripture clearly tells them they must search scripture for something to back that decision up yet the ones who are obeying plain straight forward scripture teaching are the ones man uses anything but love toward because of it. That is not right.

 

[Whispered]

I think the Lord is helping with your thinking. God is love, and God tells us love is the most important, not dates and seasons.

People who decide to keep the last day of the week are doing it because they find those instructions in scripture and those who decide to keep the first day of the week are doing it because man decides it is the day to keep and rather than obeying what scripture clearly tells them they must search scripture for something to back that decision up yet the ones who are obeying plain straight forward scripture teaching are the ones man uses anything but love toward because of it. That is not right.

Well said.
I have friends who are Sabbath keepers. I am not a regular at the practice but I have done in the past. For them it is a beautiful time to shut out the world and all that seeks their attention there, and simply spend quiet time with God, in meditation, prayer, and the word.
They turn off their phones, unplug the TV, the computer, electric lights.
They use candles and lanterns, and I've been in their homes when they've done this just for the peace of it, and it is amazing the difference in atmosphere when electrical items are no longer plugged in and all is quite and softly illumined. Seriously, there's a spiritual presence that one feels when they walk in their house. At least I did.

Look at the world today. How many fake preachers are on the air? Multi-millionaire Humanists corrupting the scripture as self help guru's.
Look at the secular world that more and more delivers the message that righteous living and thinking is not to be tolerated? Or if it is, is labeled in a manner that makes it out to be contrary to what is deemed right and proper manners by the world.

Southern Poverty Law Center, for example. At one time they were a positive activist group targeting racism and race baiting. Skin heads, KKK people, etc... Now, because of their fondness for tax exempt monies, they've turned on Conservative groups and faiths. Particularly the Christian faith.

I've met people who scoff at others who say, Christians are being persecuted in America for being Christian. Their point is, if we're not being arrested, beheaded, or stoned in the public square, we have no business claiming we're being persecuted. What we're upset about, they claim, is we're no longer the "ruling faction" in social politics.
Everything our faith declares as immoral is now legal and we're upset about that. But that's not the same thing as "real persecution".

It's funny because most of these people I've encountered that go that route and say those things are living in Silicon Valley California, making six figure salaries and driving cars that, were I to have the money paid for them, would buy me another house straight cash.

So if someone finds the Sabbath that God said was made for us, inviting, so what? Who can actually rail against that? Especially if they go to church on Sunday.
That's day spent with God in prayer, meditation, worship, reflection, and with the word; Bible. What's the difference between that and someone who retires into Sabbath day starting at sundown on Friday and until sundown on Saturday? It's a relationship that we're in, as Christians who love and revere God.
Who can tell us no, you're not right for spending time with God on the traditional Sabbath day!
Especially when they appear to forget that God said, that day He made for us to do just that.
And here we are, the church of Christ, we the body of individuals in faith, indwelt with Holy Spirit God taking issue? Really?

Makes no sense. And is indefensible using God's own scripture. Which is worse.

 

[Whispered]

Obviously, it has ALL been fulfilled.

Or Christ lied.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Are you sacrificing animals for atonement of your sin?

Probably not. Because Christ fulfilled that part of the law. No arguments with that one.


SO if SOME of the jots and tittles have passed and you no longer observe them, what does Christ say about the rest of them??? He says not one jot or tittle will fall until ALL is fulfilled.


So did you make a mistake in thinking that some of the jots and tittles were fulfilled but not all? Or did you make a mistake in thinking that none of the law is fulfilled and therefore you need to start sacrificing animals again??


Maybe, instead of arguing how All the law is NOT fulfilled, you should find out how All the law IS fulfilled in Christ.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

This scripture, as well as many others, are made meaningless if all the law is not fulfilled in Christ.

That's not what the passage says, is it?
Remember the Book of Matthew chapter 24?
34.Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Why would Jesus' prophecy be any different as pertains to those same manner of words being used in the Book of Matthew chapter 5?
◄ Matthew 5:18 ►

For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.​

Is God's kingdom on Earth established as yet? No.
Commentary from the Matthew 5 link. "...Till all be fulfilled.—Literally, Till all things have come to pass. The words in the English version suggest an identity with the “fulfil” of Matthew 5:17, which is not found in the Greek. The same formula is used in the Greek of Matthew 24:34. The “all things” in both cases are the great facts of our Lord’s life, death, resurrection, and the establishment of the kingdom of God. So taken, we find that the words do not assert, as at first they seem to do, the perpetual obligation even of the details of the Law, but the limit up to which the obligation was to last; and they are therefore not inconsistent with the words which speak of the system of the Law as a whole as “decaying and waxing old, and ready to vanish away” (Hebrews 8:13). The two “untils” have each of them their significance. Each “jot” or “tittle “must first complete its work; then, and not till then, will it pass away. "

 

[garee]

If you are no longer killing animals for the atonement of your sin then SOME jots and tittles have passed.

According to the words of Christ what does this mean?

It means ALL HAS BEEN FULFILLED. Otherwise, you are calling Christ a liar. Or He is mistaken. And so Paul and Peter are also mistaken.

Is that what you are saying? That the New Testament is mistaken?

Animals never did atone for sin. But were used as shadows in ceremonial laws of the unseen God whose Spirit was poured out for sin . We walk by faith the unseen .Not after the temporal corrupt flesh, as that seen

 

[bibleprophecy]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...d-moments-after-rejecting-climate-crisis-plan

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Obviously, it has ALL been fulfilled.

Or Christ lied.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Are you sacrificing animals for atonement of your sin?

Probably not. Because Christ fulfilled that part of the law. No arguments with that one.


SO if SOME of the jots and tittles have passed and you no longer observe them, what does Christ say about the rest of them??? He says not one jot or tittle will fall until ALL is fulfilled.


So did you make a mistake in thinking that some of the jots and tittles were fulfilled but not all? Or did you make a mistake in thinking that none of the law is fulfilled and therefore you need to start sacrificing animals again??


Maybe, instead of arguing how All the law is NOT fulfilled, you should find out how All the law IS fulfilled in Christ.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

This scripture, as well as many others, are made meaningless if all the law is not fulfilled in Christ.

----------------------------
It appears as if you are not reading what I posted, read again, I cleared the question you asked about animal sacrifices.

I will show you how fairly I weigh a discussion, let's assume that all the laws are fulfilled and I am asking this question because as I was thinking there could be a possibility that they are all fulfilled, but that does not negate commandments that God gave, or do you think it does? If it does, then if one commits adultery did he break the law, if he did then the law is still in effect, isn't it?

Though you did not explain anything to me your last statement I weighed fairly; instead of me arguing how All the law is NOT fulfilled, you should find out how All the law IS fulfilled in Christ. First, I do not argue the Scriptures, arguing the Scriptures prevent one from weighing a discussion fairly.

Yeshua said to his disciples when he appeared to them after his resurrection... “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you (past tense): Everything must be fulfilled (has to, meaning not everything is fulfilled) that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.” That was spoken of him in the law, and I never stated that he did not fulfilled laws, he fulfilled the law of sacrifice and many other laws, but fulfilling laws does not negate the Ten commandments. Laws and commandments are two different things, Abraham kept God's laws, commandments, charges, ordinances, and statutes, do you know that?

Read Luke 24:44 carefully and explain to me.

 

[garee]

----------------------------
It appears as if you are not reading what I posted, read again, I cleared the question you asked about animal sacrifices.

I will show you how fairly I weigh a discussion, let's assume that all the laws are fulfilled and I am asking this question because as I was thinking there could be a possibility that they are all fulfilled, but that does not negate commandments that God gave, or do you think it does? If it does, then if one commits adultery did he break the law, if he did then the law is still in effect, isn't it?

Though you did not explain anything to me your last statement I weighed fairly; instead of me arguing how All the law is NOT fulfilled, you should find out how All the law IS fulfilled in Christ. First, I do not argue the Scriptures, arguing the Scriptures prevent one from weighing a discussion fairly.

Yeshua said to his disciples when he appeared to them after his resurrection... “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you (past tense): Everything must be fulfilled (has to, meaning not everything is fulfilled) that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.” That was spoken of him in the law, and I never stated that he did not fulfilled laws, he fulfilled the law of sacrifice and many other laws, but fulfilling laws does not negate the Ten commandments. Laws and commandments are two different things, Abraham kept God's laws, commandments, charges, ordinances, and statutes, do you know that?

Read Luke 24:44 carefully and explain to me.

Moral laws and ceremonial laws are two different things.

The blood of animal could never take away sin. That unseen work of salvation the pouring out spirit life is in respect to the eternal Spirit God. God is not a man as us. We walk by faith the eternal not after the flesh, the temporal.

In Luke. The two men in that parable are used a representation of the glory of God. They are the two witnesses, the law and the prophets or sola scriptura. Typified by Moses and Elias. The greater witness than that of men .

 

[Blik]

Animals never did atone for sin. But were used as shadows in ceremonial laws of the unseen God whose Spirit was poured out for sin . We walk by faith the unseen .Not after the temporal corrupt flesh, as that seen

I don't think today's church understands the symbolic power that the sacrificial system had before Christ. There was forgiveness, there was grace. You read in Matthews 27:51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

In the OT death was described as sleeping with the fathers, never as living as death is spoken of after Jesus rose from the dead, but they were alive in death. They were alive through grace and the symbolism of Christ as the sacrificial system was.

 

[garee]

I don't think today's church understands the symbolic power that the sacrificial system had before Christ. There was forgiveness, there was grace. You read in Matthews 27:51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

In the OT death was described as sleeping with the fathers, never as living as death is spoken of after Jesus rose from the dead, but they were alive in death. They were alive through grace and the symbolism of Christ as the sacrificial system was.

Yes sleeping with the fathers called the bosom of Abraham. The temporal holding pen released when Christ said it is finished. The veil was rent indicated their freedom as the glory of the finished work. Nothing could hold them back from entering the kingdom of God as the new heavenly Jerusalamen The same born again Spirit of Christ worked in them from the beginning to the end.

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1:8-11

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Moral laws and ceremonial laws are two different things.

The blood of animal could never take away sin. That unseen work of salvation the pouring out spirit life is in respect to the eternal Spirit God. God is not a man as us. We walk by faith the eternal not after the flesh, the temporal.

In Luke. The two men in that parable are used a representation of the glory of God. They are the two witnesses, the law and the prophets or sola scriptura. Typified by Moses and Elias. The greater witness than that of men .

I never stated that the animal sacrifice still exist and I know they just covered sins, but that Yeshua's sacrifice was done once and for all, meaning no more animal sacrifice will take place.

 

[Grandpa]

That's not what the passage says, is it?
Remember the Book of Matthew chapter 24?
34.Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Why would Jesus' prophecy be any different as pertains to those same manner of words being used in the Book of Matthew chapter 5?
◄ Matthew 5:18 ►

For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.​

Is God's kingdom on Earth established as yet? No.
Commentary from the Matthew 5 link. "...Till all be fulfilled.—Literally, Till all things have come to pass. The words in the English version suggest an identity with the “fulfil” of Matthew 5:17, which is not found in the Greek. The same formula is used in the Greek of Matthew 24:34. The “all things” in both cases are the great facts of our Lord’s life, death, resurrection, and the establishment of the kingdom of God. So taken, we find that the words do not assert, as at first they seem to do, the perpetual obligation even of the details of the Law, but the limit up to which the obligation was to last; and they are therefore not inconsistent with the words which speak of the system of the Law as a whole as “decaying and waxing old, and ready to vanish away” (Hebrews 8:13). The two “untils” have each of them their significance. Each “jot” or “tittle “must first complete its work; then, and not till then, will it pass away. "

So it is your contention, against the actual words of Christ, that SOME of the law was fulfilled and some of the Jots and Tittles have passed but not all is fulfilled?

And you are stubbornly going to maintain that position? And think it is the correct one?


If people are being born again and becoming Christians, is this establishing Gods Kingdom on Earth? Or is it not until YOU see roads paved with gold and whatever other carnal things YOU think you need to see?

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[Grandpa]

----------------------------
It appears as if you are not reading what I posted, read again, I cleared the question you asked about animal sacrifices.

I will show you how fairly I weigh a discussion, let's assume that all the laws are fulfilled and I am asking this question because as I was thinking there could be a possibility that they are all fulfilled, but that does not negate commandments that God gave, or do you think it does? If it does, then if one commits adultery did he break the law, if he did then the law is still in effect, isn't it?

Though you did not explain anything to me your last statement I weighed fairly; instead of me arguing how All the law is NOT fulfilled, you should find out how All the law IS fulfilled in Christ. First, I do not argue the Scriptures, arguing the Scriptures prevent one from weighing a discussion fairly.

Yeshua said to his disciples when he appeared to them after his resurrection... “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you (past tense): Everything must be fulfilled (has to, meaning not everything is fulfilled) that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.” That was spoken of him in the law, and I never stated that he did not fulfilled laws, he fulfilled the law of sacrifice and many other laws, but fulfilling laws does not negate the Ten commandments. Laws and commandments are two different things, Abraham kept God's laws, commandments, charges, ordinances, and statutes, do you know that?

Read Luke 24:44 carefully and explain to me.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


That part in bold is showing that the Lord was speaking in PAST TENSE here.

All things WERE FULFILLED which were written in the law and the prophets and the psalms.


Luke 24:45-47
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


This is the proof the Lord used to show them that all things which were written in the law of moses, the prophets and the psalms were fulfilled.