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Not By Works
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No, you do not understand, it is a WAY more personal relationship that you desperately need with CHRIST, WAY more, then you could ever get to know me, even if you grew up with me. He is literally In me, and I am literally IN HIM. Nothing you have said, tells me that the HOLY SPIRIT is in you. I am sorry you do not understand these spiritual words.
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in
spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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Another bump.... are you reading @Judges1318 and @PS ......there is still time to get it right.
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Yes, I do understand what 'justification' means in James. The word is being used in a different definition of the word than what Paul is using in Romans. Did you know this? If you do know this, give a brief summary of that to show you do.
Once saved always saved people are quick to assert that a person is NOT justified by works but by faith apart from works. Which is true......if you are referring to the way Paul is using the word 'justification', but that is not true according to the definition of 'justification' that James is using.
Instead of knowing this difference, once saved always saved people simply ignore what James says and believe that faith without works DOES save because Paul said justification is by faith apart from works. But James says faith alone without the justification of works CANNOT save. They both are correct, but you have to understand what each means by 'justification'. The answer lies in the fact that justification is being used by Paul and James according to two different definitions.
The point is, you have to be justified by both faith AND works to be saved. I know your head is probably about to burst right now, but you have to know what each means to see that they are not contradictory. The faith that justifies all by itself is not the faith that is all by itself. Understand? The once saved always saved argument that says that after being saved your (so-called) faith can be 'alone' and absent of works and you will still be saved, but the truth is the faith that is alone means you do not have the faith that justifies. You are lost, not saved. But so many in the church are sure you can go back to a unbelieving life of no works and you are still saved (because salvation is not by works). Not according to James.
Once saved always saved people are quick to assert that a person is NOT justified by works but by faith apart from works. Which is true......if you are referring to the way Paul is using the word 'justification', but that is not true according to the definition of 'justification' that James is using.
Instead of knowing this difference, once saved always saved people simply ignore what James says and believe that faith without works DOES save because Paul said justification is by faith apart from works. But James says faith alone without the justification of works CANNOT save. They both are correct, but you have to understand what each means by 'justification'. The answer lies in the fact that justification is being used by Paul and James according to two different definitions.
The point is, you have to be justified by both faith AND works to be saved. I know your head is probably about to burst right now, but you have to know what each means to see that they are not contradictory. The faith that justifies all by itself is not the faith that is all by itself. Understand? The once saved always saved argument that says that after being saved your (so-called) faith can be 'alone' and absent of works and you will still be saved, but the truth is the faith that is alone means you do not have the faith that justifies. You are lost, not saved. But so many in the church are sure you can go back to a unbelieving life of no works and you are still saved (because salvation is not by works). Not according to James.
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I read it like it says:
(2Pe 2:20 KJV) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
We were talking about backsliding if you remember.
Then you change the subject, you get personal, insult me, and tell me I'm not filled with the Holy Spirit. I am offended.
Then in the next post you repeat it and say I, "desperately need with CHRIST, WAY more, "
Thank you.
(2Pe 2:20 KJV) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
We were talking about backsliding if you remember.
Then you change the subject, you get personal, insult me, and tell me I'm not filled with the Holy Spirit. I am offended.
Then in the next post you repeat it and say I, "desperately need with CHRIST, WAY more, "
Thank you.
I did but I can't see where he says "Moses followed a false God"
Yet what we do know is if I'm correct,
The promised land was promised to Abraham about 400 years before Israel entered that land.
The descendants of the land of Cannanites.
The land that was so abhorrent in their sin.
Genesis 15:16-20
16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim,
So God gave them 400 years to repent.
Deuteronomy 9:4-6
4 “Do not think in your heart, after the Lord your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the Lord has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is driving them out from before you. 5 It is not because of your righteousness or the uprightness of your heart that you go in to possess their land, but because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord your God drives them out from before you, and that He may fulfill the word which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 6 Therefore understand that the Lord your God is not giving you this good land to possess because of your righteousness, for you are a stiff-necked people.
My understanding is that commandments given to Moses before they entered the land was to tell them "This is what they do, they are not going to repent I give this land to you as a judgment for their sin and when I give you this and the commandments I have given you are what I expect my people to live by"
Setting apart a people to live the way God wants us to.
God endorsed this, not Moses.
Moses was part of the plan and promise given to Abraham.
The same God who wiped out Soddom & Gomorrah in front of Abraham.
My OT understanding is not great but the above is my thoughts.
Yet what we do know is if I'm correct,
The promised land was promised to Abraham about 400 years before Israel entered that land.
The descendants of the land of Cannanites.
The land that was so abhorrent in their sin.
Genesis 15:16-20
16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim,
So God gave them 400 years to repent.
Deuteronomy 9:4-6
4 “Do not think in your heart, after the Lord your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the Lord has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is driving them out from before you. 5 It is not because of your righteousness or the uprightness of your heart that you go in to possess their land, but because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord your God drives them out from before you, and that He may fulfill the word which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 6 Therefore understand that the Lord your God is not giving you this good land to possess because of your righteousness, for you are a stiff-necked people.
My understanding is that commandments given to Moses before they entered the land was to tell them "This is what they do, they are not going to repent I give this land to you as a judgment for their sin and when I give you this and the commandments I have given you are what I expect my people to live by"
Setting apart a people to live the way God wants us to.
God endorsed this, not Moses.
Moses was part of the plan and promise given to Abraham.
The same God who wiped out Soddom & Gomorrah in front of Abraham.
My OT understanding is not great but the above is my thoughts.
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@dcontroversal states....
Those who stand against the truths of the bible teach the following....
a. Saved to the uttermost means not saved at all
b. Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise means not sealed
c. I will never leave the means he will leave thee
d. Nor forsake the means he will forsake thee
e. Eternal life means conditional and temporary
f. Everlasting life means conditional and temporary
g. In the Father's hand means not in the Father's hand
h. In Christ's hand means not in Christ's hand
i. Nothing shall separate us from the Love of God means something will separate us from the love of God
j. Kept by the power of God means God has no power and we are thrown under the bus
k. I give unto them eternal life means he gives us temporary life
l. Saved by faith means saved by self service and what we do
m. When I see the blood I will pass over you means God will not pass over cause the blood of Christ is ineffectual
n. Where sin abounds grace did much more abound means God's grace is weak and our sin is more powerful
o. Saved does not mean saved
p. Justified by faith/blood means rendered guilty and the blood is ineffectual
q. Sanctified eternally in Christ means NOT sanctified in Christ
r. Christ beginning a work of faith means He did not do it we did it
s. Jesus finishing a work of faith in us means he is weak and cannot finish it because we must finish it for him
t. Jesus completing the work of faith is us means we must complete it because Jesus is weak and ineffectual and cannot complete it
u. ETC
The above is exactly what ALL those who believe salvation can be lost or forfeit believe...regardless of their denial......end of story.
Agree!
Those who stand against the truths of the bible teach the following....
a. Saved to the uttermost means not saved at all
b. Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise means not sealed
c. I will never leave the means he will leave thee
d. Nor forsake the means he will forsake thee
e. Eternal life means conditional and temporary
f. Everlasting life means conditional and temporary
g. In the Father's hand means not in the Father's hand
h. In Christ's hand means not in Christ's hand
i. Nothing shall separate us from the Love of God means something will separate us from the love of God
j. Kept by the power of God means God has no power and we are thrown under the bus
k. I give unto them eternal life means he gives us temporary life
l. Saved by faith means saved by self service and what we do
m. When I see the blood I will pass over you means God will not pass over cause the blood of Christ is ineffectual
n. Where sin abounds grace did much more abound means God's grace is weak and our sin is more powerful
o. Saved does not mean saved
p. Justified by faith/blood means rendered guilty and the blood is ineffectual
q. Sanctified eternally in Christ means NOT sanctified in Christ
r. Christ beginning a work of faith means He did not do it we did it
s. Jesus finishing a work of faith in us means he is weak and cannot finish it because we must finish it for him
t. Jesus completing the work of faith is us means we must complete it because Jesus is weak and ineffectual and cannot complete it
u. ETC
The above is exactly what ALL those who believe salvation can be lost or forfeit believe...regardless of their denial......end of story.
Agree!
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Oh but “if they fall away, it’s impossible to renew them,“ so even though the Bible says what your saying clear as day, that one verse proves people can fall away 
they make a mockery of the word of God, and in turn God himself , it’s sad
they make a mockery of the word of God, and in turn God himself , it’s sad
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As long as these jokers are devaluing my Lord and peddling their dime store salvation that can be lost or needs to be maintained....I will keep firing..........and as a Marine, if I run out of rounds will fix my spiritual bayonet! <---I.E. as long as I have breath I will oppose these Heinz 57 false gospels where ever they are peddled!
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Make up what?
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[d] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
John is the one who said it, I am just repeating what the apostle john said,
Your the one making stuff up!
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[d] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
John is the one who said it, I am just repeating what the apostle john said,
Your the one making stuff up!
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I think it is so funny so many people on CC think they have salvation without having a glorified body; they will find out where they go without a glorified body.
so many people on CC think they have salvation without having a glorified body; they will find out where they go without a glorified body.
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He is just another joker in a long line that have come and gone peddling human effort while devaluing JESUS.....end of story my little brother and the tragic truth...the day he finds this out will be the day he is lumped into the many group that comes before JESUS boasting of all he has done and expecting to enter......
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