Which gospel?

[TheDivineWatermark]

I know what you mean, some people (you included) are vitally connected to God, ready to be revealed as sons and others, not so lucky.

Only by means of JESUS CHRIST, see... nothing else!

(there is only "ONE MEDIATOR" between God and man, "the man CHRIST JESUS")

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

 

[Noose]

Only by means of JESUS CHRIST, see... nothing else!

(there is only "ONE MEDIATOR" between God and man, "the man CHRIST JESUS")

Ok good night.

Do not take offense with my choice of words as i mean not to offend anyone including @PennEd

If you felt offended, sorry. Hope to continue with the discussion tomorrow.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ok good night.

Do not take offense with my choice of words as i mean not to offend anyone including @PennEd

If you felt offended, sorry. Hope to continue with the discussion tomorrow.

Good night, Noose, sleep well.

I am not offended.

 

[PennEd]

The Word states otherwise:

Matt 25:3-4
"They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps."

Please try and read the thread to mitigate the reiteration.

Vessels and lamps are synonymous. BOTH represent the body and being of the individual.

The foolish had NO OIL in their lamps. You CANNOT find any place where it says they had, or EVER had ANY oil.
From Strongs concordance:
2985 lampás – a hand-held "torch" (SOMETIMES MERELY A CLAY VESSEL); a lamp that uses a wick saturated with oil.

 

[Judges1318]

The text actually states that the foolish virgins' lamps were once burning and the supply was diminished when the bridegroom came for his bride:

"And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out." Matt 25:8

That settles it for me. I read and reread the passage and concluded it didn't say either way. But it does clearly show the foolish virgins lamps did have oil in them at one time.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

That settles it for me. I read and reread the passage and concluded it didn't say either way. But it does clearly show the foolish virgins lamps did have oil in them at one time.

In the following post (at link... and a few posts above that) I provide a FEW of the reasons why everything in Matt24 - 25 (section of the Olivet Discourse) is what takes place AFTER our Rapture:

https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4095851

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ TO ADD: My most recent posts in that ^ thread (related topic to this^ ) started on the previous Page:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...t-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/page-14

[scroll down some to find my posts there]

 

[PennEd]

That settles it for me. I read and reread the passage and concluded it didn't say either way. But it does clearly show the foolish virgins lamps did have oil in them at one time.

No it doesn't ANYWHERE. Do you know what the word "clearly" means?

It says VERBATIM, THEY HAD NO OIL. That's what it says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

------
Why do we Christians always threaten Hell when there is disagreement? Only God knows who is saved & who is not. The Bible does say: Faith Without Works is Dead.

so we can pretty much assume someone who claims to have faith, but continues after his profession to live like the world. Is probably headed to hell correct?
would that be called threatening hell?

 

[NayborBear]

Please try and read the thread to mitigate the reiteration.

Vessels and lamps are synonymous. BOTH represent the body and being of the individual.

The foolish had NO OIL in their lamps. You CANNOT find any place where it says they had, or EVER had ANY oil.
From Strongs concordance:
2985 lampás – a hand-held "torch" (SOMETIMES MERELY A CLAY VESSEL); a lamp that uses a wick saturated with oil.

Which makes this verse sound perfectly clear.

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their vessels
Or?.
4 But the wise took oil in their lamps with their lamps.

Actually, having a hard time believing yer really serious
When the Bible sez it this a way:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

(sighs)
But, alas! I guess that comes when trying to "shield" ones "house of cards faith", from even the "slightest breeze, eh?
Ezekiel 13
3 Thus saith the Lord God; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.
12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?

 

[PennEd]

Which makes this verse sound perfectly clear.

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their vessels
Or?.
4 But the wise took oil in their lamps with their lamps.

Actually, having a hard time believing yer really serious
When the Bible sez it this a way:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

(sighs)
But, alas! I guess that comes when trying to "shield" ones "house of cards faith", from even the "slightest breeze, eh?
Ezekiel 13
3 Thus saith the Lord God; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.
12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?

Please try and read the thread to mitigate the reiteration.

Vessels and lamps are synonymous. BOTH represent the body and being of the individual.

The foolish had NO OIL in their lamps. You CANNOT find any place where it says they had, or EVER had ANY oil.
From Strongs concordance:
2985 lampás – a hand-held "torch" (SOMETIMES MERELY A CLAY VESSEL); a lamp that uses a wick saturated with oil.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

------
Why do we Christians always threaten Hell when there is disagreement? Only God knows who is saved & who is not. The Bible does say: Faith Without Works is Dead.

James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect?

23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.


Whether one beieves that faith leads to good works or that good works & faith are both needed, it seems to me that no matter the order, belief without action (change of heart & subsequent behaviours) that you need both.

I am curious to know what the difference is between faith is sufficient, and fatih and works? It seems like the Bible says you need both. The order of it all is what is in question.

Thank you to anyone who can explain this to me.


"

I guess my last post should be directed to you, seems he was quoting you, can you answer my question? Since the 5 minute rule already passed

 

[NayborBear]

Please try and read the thread to mitigate the reiteration.

Vessels and lamps are synonymous. BOTH represent the body and being of the individual.

The foolish had NO OIL in their lamps. You CANNOT find any place where it says they had, or EVER had ANY oil.
From Strongs concordance:
2985 lampás – a hand-held "torch" (SOMETIMES MERELY A CLAY VESSEL); a lamp that uses a wick saturated with oil.

It's so simple, yet you stumble....

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

One cannot "trim" a lamp when there was never any oil in it!

The wick would burn until it there was no wick remaining to be trimmed!
But, did the foolish virgins ask for oil AND wicks?
NOPE!
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.

But, one does need "eyes to see."

 

[gb9]

It's so simple, yet you stumble....

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

One cannot "trim" a lamp when there was never any oil in it!

The wick would burn until it there was no wick remaining to be trimmed!
But, did the foolish virgins ask for oil AND wicks?
NOPE!
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.

But, one does need "eyes to see."

as much as I hate to agree with you, with all your Sabbath keeping, judeaizer lies, you are correct about this.
it seems as if all the virgins had oil in their lamps, with some not having much, and wanting more for the others.

so, in this rare instance, you have something right.

 

[Judges1318]

No it doesn't ANYWHERE. Do you know what the word "clearly" means?

It says VERBATIM, THEY HAD NO OIL. That's what it says.

We know they didn't have any at the return of Christ.
But show us where it clearly says they never had any.

 

[Judges1318]

Please try and read the thread to mitigate the reiteration.

Vessels and lamps are synonymous. BOTH represent the body and being of the individual.

The foolish had NO OIL in their lamps. You CANNOT find any place where it says they had, or EVER had ANY oil.
From Strongs concordance:
2985 lampás – a hand-held "torch" (SOMETIMES MERELY A CLAY VESSEL); a lamp that uses a wick saturated with oil.

They had no store of oil in a container with them.

I think it's akin to the analogy of the deep spring of water in Jeremiah 17(?). In that analogy, the person has a connection to a source of living water that comes from outside of himself (yet is deep within) just as the virgins have, or have not, a source of oil with them that comes from outside of themselves. And we can tell who is connected to this source in both cases by whether or not they are producing fruit in a dry land and shining brightly in a dark land for the Lord, respectively.

 

[PennEd]

It's so simple, yet you stumble....

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

One cannot "trim" a lamp when there was never any oil in it!

The wick would burn until it there was no wick remaining to be trimmed!
But, did the foolish virgins ask for oil AND wicks?
NOPE!
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.

But, one does need "eyes to see."

Who says it was EVER lit before.

These are the same dudes in the soil parable that sprouted up, BUT had NO ROOT. Jesus is the Root. Holy Spirit is the oil. In BOTH cases these people had NONE.

So please stop trying to earn your Salvation. Get on your knees, pray to the Lord that you are a sinner in need of His Son, that you believe Jesus IS God in the flesh, and that His Sacrifice, and subsequent resurrection ALONE makes you receive a NEW heart, a NEW creation, and KNOW that you are a born again child of God!

 

[Judges1318]

It's so simple, yet you stumble....

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

One cannot "trim" a lamp when there was never any oil in it!

The wick would burn until it there was no wick remaining to be trimmed!
But, did the foolish virgins ask for oil AND wicks?
NOPE!
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.

But, one does need "eyes to see."

I had forgotten that @PennEd did say even a dry wick will burn for a moment and go out. Point well taken. I gotta be honest here and acknowledge that. But I do stand by the assertion that the parable doesn't reveal if they NEVER had any oil. Which I can understand because it makes the parable applicable to the two groups it really can apply to--those who once had oil, and those who never had oil.

 

[PennEd]

They had no store of oil in a container with them.

I think it's akin to the analogy of the deep spring of water in Jeremiah 17(?). In that analogy, the person has a connection to a source of living water that comes from outside of himself (yet is deep within) just as the virgins have, or have not, a source of oil with them that comes from outside of themselves. And we can tell who is connected to this source in both cases by whether or not they are producing fruit in a dry land and shining brightly in a dark land for the Lord, respectively.

"I'm going shopping at a store, I'm bringing my money WITH me to Wal-Mart." Are store and Wal-Mart, although completely different words, not synonymous in this context?

Here again is the Greek word and it's meaning:
The foolish had NO OIL in their lamps. You CANNOT find any place where it says they had, or EVER had ANY oil.
From Strongs concordance:
2985 lampás – a hand-held "torch" (SOMETIMES MERELY A CLAY VESSEL); a lamp that uses a wick saturated with oil.