Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

Everyone has to stand before the judgement seat, so do not rely on entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Nobody who leads others astray is eternally secure, unless they are cast into chains.

About apostasy, the biggest apostates were the Israelites, God's own people. They were worshipping idols and false gods like there was no tomorrow, they were the biggest backsliders ever, and no, they were not eternally secure. So do not go telling people they are.

I would say anyone who preaches against the sufficiency of the cross, and then erroneously claims that God sends a born again person who has been sealed by the Holy Spirit to eternal damnation should be most worried.

An absolute affront and insult on so many levels!!

 

[EleventhHour]

According to your doctrine, how is a believer falling away into unbelief somehow a testimony to how great Jesus is and how he doesn't lose any that God has given him?

In my doctrine, He's still great despite a believer falling away into unbelief because that person did not avail himself of Christ's greatness and power to stay in the faith. That's not on Christ. That's on the one who fell away, like the Galatians and the Corinthians did, and the Hebrews who wanted to leave Christ.

Even the greatest of Physicians can't make his patients follow his prescription for perfect health and life. He provides access to his greatness, and his encouragement to use it, but then it's up to the patient to use it. If they don't, that's not Christ's fault. He did his ministry perfectly. The person is at fault for not responding to his perfect ministry.

With regards to the requirements for salvation Jesus did it all.....and we receive it as a gift....it is simple concept I sure a five year old would grasp it.

 

[BillG]

I would say anyone who preaches against the sufficiency of the cross, and then erroneously claims that God sends a born again person who has been sealed by the Holy Spirit to eternal damnation should be most worried.

An absolute affront and insult on so many levels!!

Posted by PS

Correct, Jesus will not lose anyone the Father gave him.

The people we are talking about here are those who followed Jesus and later, deliberately, and after thinking about it, deny Jesus. (Peter is the exception) Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Whether or not they believed before, or whether they accepted Jesus as their saviour and then fell by the wayside, matters not, their end is the same. The message or warning is given to believers, and believe you me, people do change.

So contradictory.

Jesus will not lose anyone the Father has given him.

Yet there were those who followed him and deliberate deny him (Peter being the exception) who will lose their salvation.

As I asked him "Then why would Jesus go after them to bring them back in the state of unbelief to the same state?

Were they ever saved in the first place?

Interesting though. Many people followed Jesus when he was on the earth.
We only need to look at the feeding of the 5,000 and how they followed him afterwards.

But they were never saved.

 

[VCO]

Adam and Eve knew, walked and talked with God, yet they were beguiled by the serpent and you say everyone is eternally secure even if they sin. That is simply not true.

I am sure you misunderstood most of what you read from me. I am saying, NO MAN ON EARTH CAN LIVE UP TO GOD's STANDARD of Holiness. JESUS ONLY LIVED A PERFECTLY HOLY LIFE. That is why Our HOLINESS must Come from Holiness that JESUS Lived FOR US.
YET, you seem to imply that we can be HOLY without the inherited Holiness of JESUS. To coin your phrase, THAT SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.


You must see SIN the way GOD SEES IT. He sees SIN which we think it is not so bad, as COMPLETELY HORRIBLE. You see WE are not BETTER than the worst mass murderer on DEATH ROW, GOD SEES our SIN, even if it is a bad THOUGHT, no matter how small we think it is as MAKING US as James put it:

James 2:10 (NIV)
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


THAT MEANS, a single bad thought makes us AS GUILTY AS THE WORST MASS MURDERER ON DEATH ROW.

Both of us are GUILTY OF BRAKING ALL OF GOD'S LAWS.

I hope you can see that the LAW never was a STANDARD that GOD EXPECTS MAN TO LIVE UP TO, but RATHER A STANDARD SO HIGH, ONLY A HOLY MESSIAH COULD LIVE UP TO THAT STANDARD, driving us to SEEK the Messiah Jesus Christ to be our propitiation for us.

Romans 3:20 (HCSB)
20 For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law, because the knowledge of sin ⌊comes⌋ through the law.

Romans 3:23-26 (HCSB)
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
25 God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed.
26 ⌊God presented Him⌋ to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus.

1 John 4:10 (HCSB)
10 Love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation [paid in full] for our sins.


Therefore, if we have FAITH in JESUS it is the propitiation [paid in full] for our sins. You mentioned that Adam and Eve sinned, isn't JESUS' Death on the CROSS, Payment, [paid in full], sufficient for their sins? What about our sins, how much of them were yet future during Adam and Eves time ? ? ? Does that mean we can sin all we want? ABSOLUTELY NOT. OBEDIENCE IS NOT PART OF SALVATION, but it is part of OUR LOVE FOR GOD and the Brethren. IF WE HAVE AGAPE GODLY LOVE, WE KNOW JESUS and HIS propitiation [paid in full] for our sins.

One final thought.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


One of the modern day ordinances of man that mankind violates most frequently is the Speed Limit Ordinance ! ! !
And James says if we violate the ordinances of man it make us GUILTY OF ALL OF GODS LAWS for that SIN ! ! !



Do you KNOW JESUS, and HIS PAID IN FULL Propitiation FOR THAT SIN ? ? ?

 

[dcontroversal]

.
They were apostates. They had abandoned their faith.

And you people say "Once saved always saved."

That is not true.

Tell that to the Lord when you are reminding him of your right to enter based upon all the wonderful works you have done in his name.......see how that works out for you....

 

[dcontroversal]

If you only knew my life story.... you would know nothing could be further from the truth.... and my eyes are open to your false gospel as well, Praise God!!

He reminds me of the Blind Pharisees leading the other blind right into the ditch where all the other Cainologists are........they refused the truth as well!

 

[dcontroversal]

So I quote scripture and you red cross it....

No....he red crosses your Cainologist view of scripture....you know...the one that states clearly Jesus is not enough.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

Don't just say that and walk away.
Address each and every thing I said and set me straight on what you believe.

Won't do any good...you will just reject it and keep peddling your self sustained and maintained non saving blather

 

[dcontroversal]

@Judges1318

So you are accusing those who believe in OSAS do not actually walk in love or obedience and only love him in word only?

Same crap that people like him accused Paul of....

 

[dcontroversal]

Adam and Eve knew, walked and talked with God, yet they were beguiled by the serpent and you say everyone is eternally secure even if they sin. That is simply not true.

This post reeks of a complete ignorance of the facts and what actually took place in Genesis....take the blinders off man....serious

 

[dcontroversal]

I would say anyone who preaches against the sufficiency of the cross, and then erroneously claims that God sends a born again person who has been sealed by the Holy Spirit to eternal damnation should be most worried.

An absolute affront and insult on so many levels!!

100% agree....not of God for sure

 

[Judges1318]

Correct, however the Greatest Physician can pray for His patients, and in fact does pray for them. Since this Greatest Physician’s prayers are always in line with God’s will, His prayers are always answered with affirmation. Grace reigns supreme; that is indisputable.

It is not God's will that blasphemy of the Spirit be forgiven. But once saved always saved has the person who does that remaining saved and being ushered into the kingdom when Christ returns. Not even Jesus' prayers can change that outcome. He said it himself. That's not a failure on Christ's part. He did not lose them. They left.

 

[EleventhHour]

It is not God's will that blasphemy of the Spirit be forgiven. But once saved always saved has the person who does that remaining saved and being ushered into the kingdom when Christ returns. Not even Jesus' prayers can change that outcome. He said it himself. That's not a failure on Christ's part. He did not lose them. They left.

And to whom was Jesus speaking? The Pharisees correct, who had seen his miracles.

Once again you seemed confused about scripture, only an unbeliever can commit this sin.

A believer has responded affirmatively to the ministry of the Holy Spirit... the unbeliever is the one that rejects truth.

 

[PS]

I would say anyone who preaches against the sufficiency of the cross, and then erroneously claims that God sends a born again person who has been sealed by the Holy Spirit to eternal damnation should be most worried.

An absolute affront and insult on so many levels!!

I wish I could feel the love of Jesus coming through, but it isn't there.

 

[PS]

Posted by PS



So contradictory.

Jesus will not lose anyone the Father has given him.

Yet there were those who followed him and deliberate deny him (Peter being the exception) who will lose their salvation.

As I asked him "Then why would Jesus go after them to bring them back in the state of unbelief to the same state?

Were they ever saved in the first place?

Interesting though. Many people followed Jesus when he was on the earth.
We only need to look at the feeding of the 5,000 and how they followed him afterwards.

But they were never saved.

I love how you can determine who is saved and who is not. Are you God?

 

[PS]

I am sure you misunderstood most of what you read from me. I am saying, NO MAN ON EARTH CAN LIVE UP TO GOD's STANDARD of Holiness. JESUS ONLY LIVED A PERFECTLY HOLY LIFE. That is why Our HOLINESS must Come from Holiness that JESUS Lived FOR US.
YET, you seem to imply that we can be HOLY without the inherited Holiness of JESUS. To coin your phrase, THAT SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.


You must see SIN the way GOD SEES IT. He sees SIN which we think it is not so bad, as COMPLETELY HORRIBLE. You see WE are not BETTER than the worst mass murderer on DEATH ROW, GOD SEES our SIN, even if it is a bad THOUGHT, no matter how small we think it is as MAKING US as James put it:

James 2:10 (NIV)
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


THAT MEANS, a single bad thought makes us AS GUILTY AS THE WORST MASS MURDERER ON DEATH ROW.

Both of us are GUILTY OF BRAKING ALL OF GOD'S LAWS.

I hope you can see that the LAW never was a STANDARD that GOD EXPECTS MAN TO LIVE UP TO, but RATHER A STANDARD SO HIGH, ONLY A HOLY MESSIAH COULD LIVE UP TO THAT STANDARD, driving us to SEEK the Messiah Jesus Christ to be our propitiation for us.

Romans 3:20 (HCSB)
20 For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law, because the knowledge of sin ⌊comes⌋ through the law.

Romans 3:23-26 (HCSB)
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
25 God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed.
26 ⌊God presented Him⌋ to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus.

1 John 4:10 (HCSB)
10 Love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation [paid in full] for our sins.


Therefore, if we have FAITH in JESUS it is the propitiation [paid in full] for our sins. You mentioned that Adam and Eve sinned, isn't JESUS' Death on the CROSS, Payment, [paid in full], sufficient for their sins? What about our sins, how much of them were yet future during Adam and Eves time ? ? ? Does that mean we can sin all we want? ABSOLUTELY NOT. OBEDIENCE IS NOT PART OF SALVATION, but it is part of OUR LOVE FOR GOD and the Brethren. IF WE HAVE AGAPE GODLY LOVE, WE KNOW JESUS and HIS propitiation [paid in full] for our sins.

One final thought.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


One of the modern day ordinances of man that mankind violates most frequently is the Speed Limit Ordinance ! ! !
And James says if we violate the ordinances of man it make us GUILTY OF ALL OF GODS LAWS for that SIN ! ! !

View attachment 207864

Do you KNOW JESUS, and HIS PAID IN FULL Propitiation FOR THAT SIN ? ? ?

Boring.

 

[EleventhHour]

I wish I could feel the love of Jesus coming through, but it isn't there.

Love only exists inside truth.

Anything else is just sentimentality ..... The truth is ...salvation is a one time event that is secure and everlasting.

 

[EleventhHour]

I wish I could feel the love of Jesus coming through, but it isn't there.

Btw.... I am not offended or hurt by this all

My desire, hope is that you receive the truth.

 

[PS]

Love only exists inside truth.

Anything else is just sentimentality ..... The truth is ...salvation is a one time event that is secure and everlasting.

So that is why I don't feel the love, you don't have the truth.
Point being people can and do walk away from God. My problem with you people is that you deny this possibility.

 

[EleventhHour]

So that is why I don't feel the love, you don't have the truth.

I wonder since you are the one that made it personal.....that is typical last resort behaviour when confronted with truth.