Not By Works

[Lightskin]

The word TRAGIC applies for sure!!

I agree the wolves are all on sides... the legalists, the liberals and the subtle deceivers the most troubling of all.

You’re right, the wolves are on all sides. They were liberal at my seminary and former denomination, and are law-demanding legalists on this chat site.

 

[Lightskin]

So I quote scripture and you red cross it....

Not the Scripture but rather your incorrect summation of Scripture.

 

[PS]

Not the Scripture but rather your incorrect summation of Scripture.

It says what it says, if you live by the law, you are not one of Christs.

 

[VCO]

I'm just going by what once saved always saved people say. That's where I get what once saved always saved beliefs are. And I remember what they USED to be. I guess it turned out those beliefs weren't true after all and had to be changed to what they are now. But surely the new beliefs are definitely true, right?



How does going step by step back to not believing in Christ (but still being saved) even remotely resemble what you just said? The once saved always saved God is not very powerful. He's not as great a doctor as they say he is. His patients can flat line but He tells them they're still alive.



...except if you're one of his who have fallen by leaps and bounds away from Christ and back into unbelief.....but who still thinks he is saved.

And trust me (not directed at you) I know all about once saved always saved hypocrites who are in ministry.



No, people have been saying His sheep can stop believing in Him and they are still saved. How is that them hearing his voice, Him knowing them, and them following him, and them never perishing? Why was he not able to keep them? Or is the 'keeping' of them in name only and not in deed?



I'm just going by what people are saying in this forum.

Your group may have these particular beliefs about love and obedience that you point out, but they do not put them into practice. And they are okay with that thinking they are still saved despite their unbelieving lives. Once saved always saved has blinded them to Jesus' own words about the destruction waiting for those who love him in word only and not in deed and do not put what he teaches into practice, all the while thinking they know him when in fact their lives show they do not.

Grace does not make it so you can leave Christ in unbelief and still know him at the same time. Now maybe you can see the LIES once saved always saved people have been believing. Open your eyes, friends.

I JUST REREAD YOU POST, AND ALMOST ALL OF IT IS A LIE, ABOUT WHAT WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE.

Just so you know that is your First Warning about BEING DIVISIVE, I overlooked a couple others, giving you credit for just being ignorant about our Beliefs. Now you are accountable.


Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.


You are now on the ROAD to my permanent IGNORE LIST.

 

[Judges1318]

I JUST REREAD YOU POST, AND ALMOST ALL OF IT IS A LIE, ABOUT WHAT WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE.

Just so you know that is your First Warning about BEING DIVISIVE.


Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.


You are now on the ROAD to my permanent IGNORE LIST.

Don't just say that and walk away.
Address each and every thing I said and set me straight on what you believe.

 

[Judges1318]

Please describe better, because the scenario you depict proclaims the magnitude of God’s grace, and it simply doesn’t get any better than that.

According to your doctrine, how is a believer falling away into unbelief somehow a testimony to how great Jesus is and how he doesn't lose any that God has given him?

In my doctrine, He's still great despite a believer falling away into unbelief because that person did not avail himself of Christ's greatness and power to stay in the faith. That's not on Christ. That's on the one who fell away, like the Galatians and the Corinthians did, and the Hebrews who wanted to leave Christ.

Even the greatest of Physicians can't make his patients follow his prescription for perfect health and life. He provides access to his greatness, and his encouragement to use it, but then it's up to the patient to use it. If they don't, that's not Christ's fault. He did his ministry perfectly. The person is at fault for not responding to his perfect ministry.

 

[VCO]

Don't just say that and walk away.
Address each and every thing I said and set me straight on what you believe.

That is the SECOND WARNING. You will not listen, so I will not humor you with a response. Next time you are divisive in my opinion, I will put you on my permanent IGNORE LIST, so that I cannot see anything you Post.

 

[PS]

That is the SECOND WARNING. You will not listen, so I will not humor you with a response. Next time you are divisive in my opinion, I will put you on my permanent IGNORE LIST, so that I cannot see anything you Post.

Will you put me on ignore as well please.
I do not want you reading my posts.

 

[Lightskin]

Even the greatest of Physicians can't make his patients follow his prescription for perfect health and life.

Correct, however the Greatest Physician can pray for His patients, and in fact does pray for them. Since this Greatest Physician’s prayers are always in line with God’s will, His prayers are always answered with affirmation. Grace reigns supreme; that is indisputable.

 

[VCO]

.
They were apostates. They had abandoned their faith.

And you people say "Once saved always saved."

That is not true.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.

2 Timothy 2:19 (NRSV)
19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Let everyone who calls on the name of the Lord turn away from wickedness."

IT IS NOT THOSE WHO WILL FALL AWAY, THUS HIS ETERNAL LIFE REMAINS ETERNAL.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[VCO]

Will you put me on ignore as well please.
I do not want you reading my posts.

Better READ my most current Post to You First.

 

[BillG]

Your group may have these particular beliefs about love and obedience that you point out, but they do not put them into practice. And they are okay with that thinking they are still saved despite their unbelieving lives. Once saved always saved has blinded them to Jesus' own words about the destruction waiting for those who love him in word only and not in deed and do not put what he teaches into practice, all the while thinking they know him when in fact their lives show they do not.

@Judges1318

So you are accusing those who believe in OSAS do not actually walk in love or obedience and only love him in word only?

 

[PS]

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.

2 Timothy 2:19 (NRSV)
19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Let everyone who calls on the name of the Lord turn away from wickedness."

IT IS NOT THOSE WHO WILL FALL AWAY, THUS HIS ETERNAL LIFE REMAINS ETERNAL.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Adam and Eve knew, walked and talked with God, yet they were beguiled by the serpent and you say everyone is eternally secure even if they sin. That is simply not true.

 

[BillG]

Adam and Eve knew, walked and talked with God, yet they were beguiled by the serpent and you say everyone is eternally secure even if they sin. That is simply not true.

Please clarify "even if they sin"

Ta

 

[PS]

Please clarify "even if they sin"

Ta

I am simply repeating what people on this forum say.

The truth is, Adam and Eve were NOT eternally secure.

 

[BillG]

I am simply repeating what people on this forum say.

The truth is, Adam and Eve were NOT eternally secure.

I disagree with Adam & Eve but that is a different matter.
I know you and I disagree with this.
We have discussed this on another thread, no need to discuss it here.

So I will rephrase my question based on your original post and the above one.

Are people ES even if they sin?

 

[PS]

I disagree with Adam & Eve but that is a different matter.
I know you and I disagree with this.
We have discussed this on another thread, no need to discuss it here.

So I will rephrase my question based on your original post and the above one.

Are people ES even if they sin?

Everyone has to stand before the judgement seat, so do not rely on entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Nobody who leads others astray is eternally secure, unless they are cast into chains.

About apostasy, the biggest apostates were the Israelites, God's own people. They were worshipping idols and false gods like there was no tomorrow, they were the biggest backsliders ever, and no, they were not eternally secure. So do not go telling people they are.

 

[PS]

Lights out.

 

[BillG]

Everyone has to stand before the judgement seat, so do not rely on entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Nobody who leads others astray is eternally secure, unless they are cast into chains.

About apostasy, the biggest apostates were the Israelites, God's own people. They were worshipping idols and false gods like there was no tomorrow, they were the biggest backsliders ever, and no, they were not eternally secure. So do not go telling people they are.

Not sure why you are talking about apostasy as it has no relevance to our current discussion.

Nobody who leads others astray are ES includes you.
Do not forget that.

So do not go telling people who believe who believe in OSAS they use it as an excuse to sin, do not go telling those who believe in OSAS are leading people astray.

Your thoughts

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

You have yet to answer my question to you.

 

[BillG]

Lights out.

Sleep well.