Five Articles of the Remonstrance of Jacobus Arminius of 1610

[ieuan]

Locoponydirtman
said this below, and actually stuck to the heading and actually
related this to his own position at this time, sharing and relevant, how refreshing
with no backbiting at all. To refresh memories I have reposted article 5 below his comment.

"I find that article 5 is the sticking point for me. While it may be true to the extent of what is called open and overt sin, this body of sin and death will indeed die because of sin. No not one person can say at any one moment that they are with out sin. Because even when we do good sin is there staining the good work, as a filthy rag. Even rising from the alter of repentance, some selfishness, some pride, or wantonness immediately occurs even in the mind."
******
Article 5
That those who are incorporated into Christ by true faith, and have thereby become partakers of
his life-giving Spirit, have thereby full power to strive against Satan, sin, the world, and their own
flesh, and to win the victory; it being well understood that it is ever through the assisting grace
of the Holy Ghost; and that Jesus Christ assists them through his Spirit in all temptations, extends
to them his hand, and if only they are ready for the conflict, and desire his help, and are not inactive,
keeps them from falling, so that they, by no craft or power of Satan, can be misled nor plucked out
of Christ’s hands, according to the Word of Christ, John 10:28: “Neither shall any man pluck them
out of my hand.”

But whether they are capable, through negligence, of forsaking again the first
beginning of their life in Christ, of again returning to this present evil world, of turning away
from the holy doctrine which was delivered them, of losing a good conscience, of becoming
devoid of grace, that must be more particularly determined out of the Holy Scripture, before
we ourselves can teach it with the full persuasion of our mind. [6]

*****

My comment on article 5 is that is seems unsure and fails to give the reader assurance. The last
part which I have separated from the main text cannot say whether one can fall or not and to me
the originator of this statement is in danger himself.
I agree with locoponydirt man that everything we do, even the good, is often tainted by self interest.

 

[ieuan]

In comparison I post again the reply to this article 5 of the remonstarnce by the Synod and posted as the Canons of Dord:

FIFTH HEAD OF DOCTRINE Of the Perseverance of the Saints

Article 1 Whom God calls, according to His purpose, to the communion of His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and regenerates by the Holy Spirit, He delivers also from the dominion and slavery of sin in this life; though not altogether from the body of sin and from the infirmities of the flesh, so long as they continue in this world.
Article 2 Hence spring daily sins of infirmity, and hence spots adhere to the best works of the saints, which furnish them with constant matter for humiliation before God, and flying for refuge to Christ crucified; for mortifying the flesh more and more by the spirit of prayer, and by holy exercises of piety; and for pressing forward to the goal of perfection, till being at length delivered from this body of death, they are brought to reign with the Lamb of God in heaven.
Article 3 By reason of these remains of indwelling sin, and the temptations of sin and of the world, those who are converted could not persevere in a state of grace if left to their own strength. But God is faithful, who having conferred grace, mercifully confirms and powerfully preserves them therein, even to the end.
Article 4 Although the weakness of the flesh cannot prevail against the power of God, who confirms and preserves true believers in a state of grace, yet converts are not always so influenced and actuated by the Spirit of God, as not in some particular instances sinfully to deviate from the guidance of divine grace, so as to be seduced by, and comply with the lusts of the flesh; they must, therefore, be constant in watching and prayer that they be not led into temptation. When these are neglected, they are not only liable to be drawn into great and heinous sins by Satan, the world and the flesh, but sometimes by the righteous permission of God actually fall into these evils. This the lamentable fall of David, Peter, and other saints described in Holy Scripture demonstrates.
Article 5 By such enormous sins, however, they very highly offend God, incur a deadly guilt, grieve the Holy Spirit, interrupt the exercise of faith, very grievously wound their consciences, and sometimes lose the sense of God's favor for a time, until on their returning into the right way of serious repentance, the light of God's fatherly countenance again shines upon them.
Article 6 But God, who is rich in mercy, according to His unchangeable purpose of election, does not wholly withdraw the Holy Spirit from His own people, even in their melancholy falls; nor suffers them to proceed so far as to lose the grace of adoption, and forfeit the state of justification, or to commit the sin unto death; nor does He permit them to be totally deserted, and to plunge themselves into everlasting destruction. Article 7 For in the first place, in these falls He preserves in them the incorruptible seed of regeneration from perishing or being totally lost; and again, by His Word and Spirit, certainly and effectually renews them to repentance, to a sincere and godly sorrow for their sins, that they may seek and obtain remission in the blood of the Mediator, may again experience the favor of a reconciled God, through faith adore His mercies, and henceforward more diligently work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.
Article 8 Thus, it is not in consequence of their own merits or strength, but of God's free mercy, that they do not totally fall from faith and grace, nor continue and perish finally in their backslidings; which, with respect to themselves, is not only possible, but would undoubtedly happen; but with respect to God, it is utterly impossible, since His counsel cannot be changed nor His promise fail, neither can the call according to His purpose be revoked, nor the merit, intercession and preservation of Christ be rendered ineffectual, nor the sealing of the Holy Spirit be frustrated or obliterated.
Article 9 Of this preservation of the elect to salvation and of their perseverance in the faith, true believers for themselves may and do obtain assurance according to the measure of their faith, whereby they arrive at the certain persuasion that
they ever will continue true and living members of the church; and that they experience forgiveness of sins, and will at last inherit eternal life.
*Article 10 This assurance, however, is not produced by any peculiar revelation contrary to, or independent of the Word of God; but springs from faith in God's promises, which He has most abundantly revealed in His Word for our comfort; from the testimony of the Holy Spirit witnessing with our spirit that we are children and heirs of God (Rom. 8:16); and lastly, from a serious and holy desire to preserve a good conscience and to perform good works. And if the elect of God were deprived of this solid comfort that they shall finally obtain the victory and of this infallible pledge or earnest of eternal glory, they would be of all men the most miserable.
Article 11 The Scripture moreover testifies that believers in this life have to struggle with various carnal doubts and that under grievous temptations they are not always sensible of this full assurance of faith and certainty of persevering. But God, who is the Father of all consolation, does not suffer them to be tempted above that they are able, but will with the temptation also make a way to escape that they may be able to bear it (1 Cor. 10:13), and by the Holy Spirit again inspires them with the comfortable assurance of persevering.
Article 12 This certainty of perseverance, however, is so far from exciting in believers a spirit of pride or of rendering them carnally secure, that on the contrary, it is the real source of humility, filial reverence, true piety, patience in every tribulation, fervent prayers, constancy in suffering, and in confessing the truth, and of solid rejoicing in God; so that the consideration of this benefit should serve as an incentive to the serious and constant practice of gratitude and good works, as appears from the testimonies of Scripture and the examples of the saints.
Article 13 Neither does renewed confidence of persevering produce licentiousness or a disregard to piety in those who are recovering from backsliding; but it renders them much more careful and solicitous to continue in the ways of the Lord, which He hath ordained, that they who walk therein may maintain an assurance of persevering, lest by abusing His fatherly kindness, God should turn away His gracious countenance from them, to behold which is to the godly dearer than life, the withdrawing whereof is more bitter than death, and they in consequence hereof should fall into more grievous torments of conscience.
Article 14 And as it hath pleased God, by the preaching of the gospel, to begin this work of grace in us, so He preserves, continues, and perfects it by the hearing and reading of His Word, by meditation thereon, and by the exhortations, threatenings, and promises thereof, as well as by the use of the sacraments.
Article 15 The carnal mind is unable to comprehend this doctrine of the perseverance of the saints and the certainty thereof, which God hath most abundantly revealed in His Word, for the glory of His Name, and the consolation of pious souls, and which He impresses upon the hearts of the faithful. Satan abhors it; the world ridicules it; the ignorant and hypocrite abuse, and heretics oppose it; but the spouse of Christ hath always most tenderly loved and constantly defended it as an inestimable treasure; and God, against whom neither counsel nor strength can prevail, will dispose her to continue this conduct to the end. Now, to this one God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, be honor and glory forever. Amen.

 

[ieuan]

In comparison I post again the reply to this article 5 of the remonstarnce by the Synod and posted as the Canons of Dord:

FIFTH HEAD OF DOCTRINE Of the Perseverance of the Saints

Article 1 Whom God calls, according to His purpose, to the communion of His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and regenerates by the Holy Spirit, He delivers also from the dominion and slavery of sin in this life; though not altogether from the body of sin and from the infirmities of the flesh, so long as they continue in this world.

Article 2 Hence spring daily sins of infirmity, and hence spots adhere to the best works of the saints, which furnish them with constant matter for humiliation before God, and flying for refuge to Christ crucified; for mortifying the flesh more and more by the spirit of prayer, and by holy exercises of piety; and for pressing forward to the goal of perfection, till being at length delivered from this body of death, they are brought to reign with the Lamb of God in heaven.

Article 3 By reason of these remains of indwelling sin, and the temptations of sin and of the world, those who are converted could not persevere in a state of grace if left to their own strength. But God is faithful, who having conferred grace, mercifully confirms and powerfully preserves them therein, even to the end.

Article 4 Although the weakness of the flesh cannot prevail against the power of God, who confirms and preserves true believers in a state of grace, yet converts are not always so influenced and actuated by the Spirit of God, as not in some particular instances sinfully to deviate from the guidance of divine grace, so as to be seduced by, and comply with the lusts of the flesh; they must, therefore, be constant in watching and prayer that they be not led into temptation. When these are neglected, they are not only liable to be drawn into great and heinous sins by Satan, the world and the flesh, but sometimes by the righteous permission of God actually fall into these evils. This the lamentable fall of David, Peter, and other saints described in Holy Scripture demonstrates.

Article 5 By such enormous sins, however, they very highly offend God, incur a deadly guilt, grieve the Holy Spirit, interrupt the exercise of faith, very grievously wound their consciences, and sometimes lose the sense of God's favour for a time, until on their returning into the right way of serious repentance, the light of God's fatherly countenance again shines upon them.

Article 6 But God, who is rich in mercy, according to His unchangeable purpose of election, does not wholly withdraw the Holy Spirit from His own people, even in their melancholy falls; nor suffers them to proceed so far as to lose the grace of adoption, and forfeit the state of justification, or to commit the sin unto death; nor does He permit them to be totally deserted, and to plunge themselves into everlasting destruction.

Article 7 For in the first place, in these falls He preserves in them the incorruptible seed of regeneration from perishing or being totally lost; and again, by His Word and Spirit, certainly and effectually renews them to repentance, to a sincere and godly sorrow for their sins, that they may seek and obtain remission in the blood of the Mediator, may again experience the favour of a reconciled God, through faith adore His mercies, and henceforward more diligently work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.

Article 8 Thus, it is not in consequence of their own merits or strength, but of God's free mercy, that they do not totally fall from faith and grace, nor continue and perish finally in their backslidings; which, with respect to themselves, is not only possible, but would undoubtedly happen; but with respect to God, it is utterly impossible, since His counsel cannot be changed nor His promise fail, neither can the call according to His purpose be revoked, nor the merit, intercession and preservation of Christ be rendered ineffectual, nor the sealing of the Holy Spirit be frustrated or obliterated.

Article 9 Of this preservation of the elect to salvation and of their perseverance in the faith, true believers for themselves may and do obtain assurance according to the measure of their faith, whereby they arrive at the certain persuasion that they ever will continue true and living members of the church; and that they experience forgiveness of sins, and will at last inherit eternal life.

*Article 10 This assurance, however, is not produced by any peculiar revelation contrary to, or independent of the Word of God; but springs from faith in God's promises, which He has most abundantly revealed in His Word for our comfort; from the testimony of the Holy Spirit witnessing with our spirit that we are children and heirs of God (Rom. 8:16); and lastly, from a serious and holy desire to preserve a good conscience and to perform good works. And if the elect of God were deprived of this solid comfort that they shall finally obtain the victory and of this infallible pledge or earnest of eternal glory, they would be of all men the most miserable.

Article 11 The Scripture moreover testifies that believers in this life have to struggle with various carnal doubts and that under grievous temptations they are not always sensible of this full assurance of faith and certainty of persevering. But God, who is the Father of all consolation, does not suffer them to be tempted above that they are able, but will with the temptation also make a way to escape that they may be able to bear it (1 Cor. 10:13), and by the Holy Spirit again inspires them with the comfortable assurance of persevering.

Article 12 This certainty of perseverance, however, is so far from exciting in believers a spirit of pride or of rendering them carnally secure, that on the contrary, it is the real source of humility, filial reverence, true piety, patience in every tribulation, fervent prayers, constancy in suffering, and in confessing the truth, and of solid rejoicing in God; so that the consideration of this benefit should serve as an incentive to the serious and constant practice of gratitude and good works, as appears from the testimonies of Scripture and the examples of the saints.

Article 13 Neither does renewed confidence of persevering produce licentiousness or a disregard to piety in those who are recovering from backsliding; but it renders them much more careful and solicitous to continue in the ways of the Lord, which He hath ordained, that they who walk therein may maintain an assurance of persevering, lest by abusing His fatherly kindness, God should turn away His gracious countenance from them, to behold which is to the godly dearer than life, the withdrawing whereof is more bitter than death, and they in consequence hereof should fall into more grievous torments of conscience.

Article 14 And as it hath pleased God, by the preaching of the gospel, to begin this work of grace in us, so He preserves, continues, and perfects it by the hearing and reading of His Word, by meditation thereon, and by the exhortations, threatenings, and promises thereof, as well as by the use of the sacraments.

Article 15 The carnal mind is unable to comprehend this doctrine of the perseverance of the saints and the certainty thereof, which God hath most abundantly revealed in His Word, for the glory of His Name, and the consolation of pious souls, and which He impresses upon the hearts of the faithful. Satan abhors it; the world ridicules it; the ignorant and hypocrite abuse, and heretics oppose it; but the spouse of Christ hath always most tenderly loved and constantly defended it as an inestimable treasure; and God, against whom neither counsel nor strength can prevail, will dispose her to continue this conduct to the end. Now, to this one God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, be honor and glory forever. Amen.

 

[ieuan]

It is my experience that detrators to this teaching in the Synod of Dord, wholley taken from scripture,
i srarely read and so they continue in their misguided efforts to drag down such a high work
of theological thought.

 

[ieuan]

1 Corinthians 10:13 NIV

13 No temptation[a] has overtaken you except what is common to mankind.
And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted[b] beyond what you can bear.
But when you are tempted,[c] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

OK, but mine was linked to a Dictionary site.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

It is my experience that detrators to this teaching in the Synod of Dord, wholley taken from scripture,
i srarely read and so they continue in their misguided efforts to drag down such a high work
of theological thought.

I have every sympathy for the man who lacks assurance it shows he is alive.
You know no one kicks a dead dog. Why, because he's dead. The people who are
dead in sin don't care, the man who is cats don about his state is alive and there
is hope for that man.

I'm still waiting to find out what a cats don is......

 

[ieuan]

I apologise for my poor typing, that should read cast down in his sin.

 

[Whispered]

I'm still waiting to find out what a cats don is......

This is much funnier than an admitted typo. Cat's Don. (think Godfather with whiskers)

We made the dog an offer he couldn't refuse.

 

[ieuan]

Now I feel silly.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Now I feel silly.

that is not an unfamiliar feeling for most of us

no worries. it was just funny

 

[Nehemiah6]

It is my experience that detractors to this teaching in the Synod of Dort, wholly taken from scripture...

While much is taken from Scripture, much is also man-made doctrine. The Synod of Dort presented Reformed Theology, and the gospel according to Reformed Theology is quite different from the Gospel found in the Bible. The Synod of Dort resulted in TULIP, which is a false gospel. TULIP has been discussed in detail, but those who hold to this false gospel would rather hang on to it than believe the Bible. That is how powerful lies are.

 

[TooFastTurtle]

While much is taken from Scripture, much is also man-made doctrine. The Synod of Dort presented Reformed Theology, and the gospel according to Reformed Theology is quite different from the Gospel found in the Bible. The Synod of Dort resulted in TULIP, which is a false gospel. TULIP has been discussed in detail, but those who hold to this false gospel would rather hang on to it than believe the Bible. That is how powerful lies are.

How does TULIP affect the gospel?

I am not a member of any Calvinist group by the way, as you probably know, just asking to educate myself.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Locoponydirtman
said this below, and actually stuck to the heading and actually
related this to his own position at this time, sharing and relevant, how refreshing
with no backbiting at all. To refresh memories I have reposted article 5 below his comment.

"I find that article 5 is the sticking point for me. While it may be true to the extent of what is called open and overt sin, this body of sin and death will indeed die because of sin. No not one person can say at any one moment that they are with out sin. Because even when we do good sin is there staining the good work, as a filthy rag. Even rising from the alter of repentance, some selfishness, some pride, or wantonness immediately occurs even in the mind."
******
Article 5
That those who are incorporated into Christ by true faith, and have thereby become partakers of
his life-giving Spirit, have thereby full power to strive against Satan, sin, the world, and their own
flesh, and to win the victory; it being well understood that it is ever through the assisting grace
of the Holy Ghost; and that Jesus Christ assists them through his Spirit in all temptations, extends
to them his hand, and if only they are ready for the conflict, and desire his help, and are not inactive,
keeps them from falling, so that they, by no craft or power of Satan, can be misled nor plucked out
of Christ’s hands, according to the Word of Christ, John 10:28: “Neither shall any man pluck them
out of my hand.”

But whether they are capable, through negligence, of forsaking again the first
beginning of their life in Christ, of again returning to this present evil world, of turning away
from the holy doctrine which was delivered them, of losing a good conscience, of becoming
devoid of grace, that must be more particularly determined out of the Holy Scripture, before
we ourselves can teach it with the full persuasion of our mind. [6]

*****

My comment on article 5 is that is seems unsure and fails to give the reader assurance. The last
part which I have separated from the main text cannot say whether one can fall or not and to me
the originator of this statement is in danger himself.
I agree with locoponydirt man that everything we do, even the good, is often tainted by self interest.

So there is at least one more honest Christian, willing to confess that he is a sinner with only one hope, that the grace of God in Jesus, is given to us in his mercy.

 

[Butterflyyy]

So there is at least one more honest Christian, willing to confess that he is a sinner with only one hope, that the grace of God in Jesus, is given to us in his mercy.

We all think that

 

[Whispered]

So there is at least one more honest Christian, willing to confess that he is a sinner with only one hope, that the grace of God in Jesus, is given to us in his mercy.

Right, as Butterflyyy said, we all think that. Unless you're saying as a Christian we are a sinner still. Then, you're wrong.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

We all think that

I don't think so. I heard a preach preach today that he don't sin anymore. I think he was sinning.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Right, as Butterflyyy said, we all think that. Unless you're saying as a Christian we are a sinner still. Then, you're wrong.

Let me guess you never sin

 

[Nehemiah6]

How does TULIP affect the gospel? I am not a member of any Calvinist group by the way, as you probably know, just asking to educate myself.

Kindly search for articles on Calvinism and TULIP which have already been posted in CC.

 

[Whispered]

It is my experience that detrators to this teaching in the Synod of Dord, wholley taken from scripture,
i srarely read and so they continue in their misguided efforts to drag down such a high work
of theological thought.

In case you haven't read the SoD.
Canons of Dort - text(or Synod of Dort) full text

As for the comment that Reformed Theology's Gospel is different than the Gospel in the Bible, that's true.
One of the largest Denominations under the RT umbrella is Calvinism.

In brief, Reformed Theology declares that Jesus died only for those lost souls whom the Father gave Him to save before the world, much less sin itself, came to exist.
And those persons are totally depraved as natural born sinners until God's Holy Spirit enters them so as to make them to be that chosen one, "the elect", who are then able to comprehend the Gospel Good News, and then God makes them to have faith in what they're being taught, as that Gospel Good News.
Because, their God Given Total Depravity makes them in their natural state as one Totally Depraved, unable to understand anything of God.

None of this was taught by Christ. The well known verse in The Book of John chapter 3 verse 16 itself refutes in toto RT's declaration.
For God so loved the world
That He gave His only Begotten Son
That Whosoever believes in Him
Shall not Perish (in their sins)
But have immortal life.

The keywords in that single verse are bolded as that which renounces RT's doctrine in its entirety. RT actually blasphemes God by making Him out to be an immoral monster. An all knowing creator that creates a human race totally incapable of comprehending spiritual things, and in that God given state are damned to Hell. Unless or until any one in that population of humans is a chosen one, an elected one, of God so as to be made , not by their own choice because the Totally Depraved are incapable of exercising free will/choice of their own accord, but because God made them to be in His grace. And then once there , He made them to be able to hold faith in His word. Something they were made, by God and at their birth, prior to this God given transformation into grace and faith, incapable of doing.

Jesus died only for those people God would change like that.

RT also teaches Double Predestination, which what I just described is in a nutshell known as, Predestination. But Double Predestination is the belief that not only all that I posted above is a matter of God predetermining whom He would put into His grace and bring to faith but, He also predetermined whom would be born so as to perish in their sin and go to Hell. All before anything came to exist.

Think about what all that says about God.
I'll help; We're all pawns, and God is the back row in this chess game where some of us pawns will be saved from God. And some will go to Hell thanks to God.

That's why RT rewrites the actual Gospel to its own ends.