Five Articles of the Remonstrance of Jacobus Arminius of 1610

[ieuan]

In case anyone thinks I am teaching a righteousness of my own doctrine
please find below some bibleical statement that support this doctrine:

Imputed Righteousness - KJV

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might
be made the righteousness of God in him.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,
but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge
shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works
of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

1 Peter 2:24 - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins,
should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Romans 3:22 - Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon
all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 1:17 - For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written,
The just shall live by faith.

1 Corinthians 1:30 - But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom,
and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Romans 4:3 - For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted
unto him for righteousness.

Jeremiah 23:6 - In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely:
and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called,
THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is basic Biblical doctrine, this should be known by all Christians that we are
not saved by our own works under the law, but are saved by the righteousness of Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[ieuan]

Garee,

If a man is born again then Christ will finish the work
But if a man is given just one talent, not born again, then he will fall away.

The verses can be read in two different ways:

1. the apostle speaking of the hwole world

2. the apostle speaking about the Elect of God.

You mya be thinking that Christ begins a work in fallen man and dosn;'t complete it.
It depends on what sort of work it is, because all grace comes from God, but there are degrees
of grace, some seed fall into stony ground some seed put down shallow roots, it is only
the seed that falls in to ploughed ground that grows healthy, (born again heart).

 

[ieuan]

The atonement made on the cross is sufficient for all,
there is no doubt Calvin taught this. But it is not efficatious
to the lost, those who reject Christ. This is why the Jews are cast out
at this present time. If Christ atoned for a man's sins than that man will be saved.
If the man never comes to faith then Christ did not die for him as he rejected
HIM. Hyper Calvinists will deny this, they state that Christ died only for His sheep
and not sufficient for all.

This has spllt the Reformed Church for the past 100 years.

 

[ieuan]

Regarding the RUDE comments, I will report if it gets out of hand.

Regarding heresy, there are very limited rules regarding this.
Normally heresy wil only be acted upon if it denies the Trinity.

So I would ask the person who accused me of teaching heresy
why would you wish to stay on thread with a heretic?

If you hate Calvinism, the same question.

I am here to discuss the Bible.

 

[ieuan]

Adstar
There are mnay articles in plain English, here is the Wiki article
on the Remonstrance:

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Articles_of_Remonstrance

 

[Butterflyyy]

Calvin is dead.

The Bible does teach that Christ died for ALL. All that the father gave to the son . Not every person in the whole world. universalism

The key is as many as. Not one more or one less. Many references to as many as...

Below are four of as many as there are (all)

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Not one more or one less the whole

I was NOT suggesting Universalism I can assure you.
As many as RECEIVED.... this is a verb.🙂

The way Calvinists twist scripture is deception. I refuse to waste time arguing with folks who will not truly consider any other point of view than that which they hold to. It's futile.

 

[Butterflyyy]

they are pulling your leg

looks like ieuan is a relatively new member

don't let the Calvinists have so much fun

we have been dealing with them for a couple of months now

FYI, even if someone 'reports' you that is not some smear on your character...it is often just a disagreement in doctrine and nothing will happen

if someone really gets rude? ignore them. if you hover your mouse over their name (to the left) several choices will pop up. one of them is 'ignore'. click on that and you will not see their posts anymore unless you decide you want to and then you can unignore or just click on 'show ignored content' which you will see to the right at the bottom of the posts on a page

Ieuan is NOT pulling my leg.
And he has just stated 'what he doesn't mind' with regards to friendly banter on here....
LOL... did someone put him in charge here... ?

 

[DB7]

DB7 said:

"but righteous does, without exception, mean, NOT totally depraved, nor have a fallen nature."

I wanted to say I find your explanation reasonable DB7, but if you don't mind we can say
that we do retai the fallen nature in part after conversion, we battle against the flesh, and
some of us like David fail miserably. Yet we are seen as righteous by God, because we are
covered by the righteousness of Christ. He died for us and inputes His righteousness
to us, so the Ftaher sees us only through the light of Christ. That is what righteousness means.
I am not picking on you, just wanted to say how I see it.

Note, although David caused the murder of Uzziah the hittite and took his wife as his own, a vile crime,
yet David continued to recieve God's bessing throughout his life. david wa spunished yes, and his crime
made public, yet he retained God's love throughout his life as God's anninted.

Other saints sinned badly, yet were counted rigtheous. :0)

Yes, but ieuen, the battles that you mentioned are no different than what Adam & Eve fought in the Garden. They failed, as much as David, and all of us fail. Sorry, but you haven't identified a difference in constitution between humans before the fall, and after the fall.
Sin cannot be transferred, God did not plan it this way. For if it were so, humans, irrefutably, would be exponentially getting worse and worse as time progresses, which we see is not the case. Look at the Kings of Judah, the lineage of the kings produced both good and bad rulers. The evil fathers did not necessarily pass their wickedness over to their sons (eg: Amon & Josiah). Point being, this is indicative throughout the world, take a look at any family, observe how different in both morality and ethics each child is from the other. Evil does not propagate evil, i.e. God does not hold a son accountable for the sins of their parents (so to speak).

 

[DB7]

“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.[Matthew 18:12-14]

S&A, just because Jesus' allegory included sheep within the plot, does not necessitate at all that his reference was to Christ's flock. That was an extremely eisegetical interpretation. He simply used an example that many can relate to at that time. To a shepherd, sheep are costly and not expendable, one desperately attempts to retrieve them when lost, as much as a fiancé does when a dowry is lost or missing (his other example). Jesus used various characters and objects in his paroboles to convey a particular message. Many of them were wicked men and situations, so that they, in and of themselves, were not intended as allusions or analogies to another entity in order to underscore the point that he was making. They were intended to set-up a contrived context, in order to allow the other characters to establish the moral of the story.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

S&A, just because Jesus' allegory included sheep within the plot, does not necessitate at all that his reference was to Christ's flock. That was an extremely eisegetical interpretation. He simply used an example that many can relate to at that time. To a shepherd, sheep are costly and not expendable, one desperately attempts to retrieve them when lost, as much as a fiancé does when a dowry is lost or missing (his other example). Jesus used various characters and objects in his paroboles to convey a particular message. Many of them were wicked men and situations, so that they, in and of themselves, were not intended as allusions or analogies to another entity in order to underscore the point that he was making. They were intended to set-up a contrived context, in order to allow the other characters to establish the moral of the story.

But sheep and shepherd symbolize the elect and the Christ. Too many references for them not to be. We can see that in Ezekiel 34 and also in John 10, just off the top of my head.

 

[DB7]

But sheep and shepherd symbolize the elect and the Christ. Too many references for them not to be. We can see that in Ezekiel 34 and also in John 10, just off the top of my head.

Absolutely, I agree, but just not this time. This, again, is more in the genre of his other paroboles, they are allegories. The places that you just cited are metaphors and analogies. I believe that the genre or literary convention being used, defines where to correlate one to the other. The parobole of the lost sheep is just a coincidence that 'sheep' are the allegorical part. As you are probably aware that Origen used this type of interpretation much to a detriment. i.e. simply assuming where a word is used in one context as an analogy, it bears the same significance when it is used as an allegory or literally.
I believe that you did this here.

 

[ieuan]

I said I would post the Synod of Dord statement article 1 - here it is below:
Remonstrance
Article 1
That God, by an eternal and unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ his Son, before the foundation
of the world, hath determined, out of the fallen, sinful race of men[1], to save in Christ, for Christ’s sake,
and through Christ, those who, through the grace of the Holy Ghost, shall believe on this his son Jesus,
and shall persevere in this faith and obedience of faith, through this grace, even to the end; and, on
the other hand, to leave the incorrigible and unbelieving in sin and under wrath, and to condemn
them as alienate from Christ, according to the word of the Gospel in John 3:36: “He that believeth
on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath
of God abideth on him,” and according to other passages of Scripture also. [2]

*****
Synod of Dord
Of Divine Predestination

Article 1
As all men have sinned in Adam[1], lie under the curse, and are deserving of eternal death, God would have done no injustice by leaving them all to perish, and delivering them over to condemnation on account of sin, according to the words of the apostle, “that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God” (Rom. 3:19). And verse 23: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” And Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death.”

I have marked what is common in the two above hence [1], so we see they agree in part, that all men fell in Adam.

 

[ieuan]

Following on the second article:
Synod of Dord
Article 2
But in this the love of God was manifested, that He sent His only begotten Son into the world [2], that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. “In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him” (1 John 4:9). “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” [3].

Remonstrance
Article 1
That God, by an eternal and unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ his Son, before the foundation
of the world, hath determined, out of the fallen, sinful race of men[1], to save in Christ, for Christ’s sake,
and through Christ, those who, through the grace of the Holy Ghost[2], shall believe on this his son Jesus[3],
and shall persevere in this faith and obedience of faith, through this grace, even to the end; and, on
the other hand, to leave the incorrigible and unbelieving in sin and under wrath, and to condemn
them as alienate from Christ, according to the word of the Gospel in John 3:36: “He that believeth
on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath
of God abideth on him,” and according to other passages of Scripture also. [2]

The remonstrance sets a standard here [3] a qualification. It is dependant on works: keeping the faith
(I agree), obedience to the faith.

Synod sets in article 4:
Article 5
The cause or guilt of this unbelief, as well as of all other sins, is no wise in God, but in man himself;
whereas faith in Jesus Christ and salvation through Him is the free gift of God, as it is written:
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8).
“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him,” etc. (Phil. 1:29).
The synod says that the cause of unbelief is man's. Not of God, but man has set his heart to reject
God and therefore it is the sinner's wish to defy and bring down damnation on his own head.

This agree very much with what Armenians teach.

It is important to note that the Synod refused to label the followers of Arminius as heretics,
no doubt they thought it, but the reason as if in doing so they would have then made a legal
declaration and the follows of Arminius could have been tried in a civil court and the punishment
was death, not just death but an extremely painful death - burning. They could also be legally
tortured and in some cases sentence could be by burial alive. These were the punishments
decreed by the Spanish Authorities who ruled the 17 provinces at that time.
*****

 

[Nehemiah6]

Article 4
That this grace of God is the beginning, continuance, and accomplishment of all good, even to this extent, that the regenerate man himself, without prevenient or assisting, awakening, following and cooperative grace, can neither think, will, nor do good, nor withstand any temptations to evil, so that all good deeds or movements, that can be conceived, must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ.

What this is saying that sinners are not only saved by grace, but that saints are ENABLED by God's grace to do the will of God. It is also confirming what Scripture says in Philippians 2:13: For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. So all Christians can agree that is is Bible Truth.

...but respects the mode of the operation of this grace, it is not irresistible...

Now this is an attempt to refute the Calvinistic idea of IRRESISTIBLE GRACE. Except it is the wrong place to talk about it, since irresistible grace applies to the salvation of the so-called elect.

...inasmuch as it is written concerning many, that they have resisted the Holy Ghost. Acts 7, and elsewhere in many places.

This applies to the unsaved, who do resist the grace of God, as Stephen accused the unbelieving Jews of doing in Acts 7.

At the same time, when it comes to believers it is more a matter of either walking in the Spirit or yielding to the flesh (the old sin nature). We can also see from personal experience that many Christians resist the truth and insist on holding on to their false beliefs.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

hey there mr ieuan

How about learning to use the quote feature?

hit the reply in the lower right hand corner of a post

then post whatever

at least then we don't have call on Sherlock Holmes to find out who you are talking to

 

[7seasrekeyed]

To All:

I don't mind a little kindly banter in the room, even at my expense
I don't mind if you disagree, I do mind if we treat the things of God
carelessly. What we say in here today could affect someone seeking Christ.
I am sure you would never impede the growth of a new soul to Christ.

well, you might consider the fact you do not run the forums and people who have been here since dinosaurs roamed the earth will continue to answer as they will

you cannot control other people here
'
what you consider 'the things of God' another may totally reject with even more passion

 

[Nehemiah6]

Article 5
That those who are incorporated into Christ by true faith, and have thereby become partakers of his life-giving Spirit, have thereby full power to strive against Satan, sin, the world, and their own flesh, and to win the victory; it being well understood that it is ever through the assisting grace of the Holy Ghost; and that Jesus Christ assists them through his Spirit in all temptations, extends to them his hand, and if only they are ready for the conflict, and desire his help, and are not inactive...

What this is saying is that Christians can be overcomers by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. This is true, therefore Christians should keep their focus on holiness and righteousness, not on sin.

...keeps them from falling, so that they, by no craft or power of Satan, can be misled nor plucked out of Christ’s hands, according to the Word of Christ, John 10:28: “Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Once again we have unnecessary confusion introduced here. This is a reference to the eternal security of the believer, who is saved by grace and kept by the power of God. But it is a separate issue from what is stated above. The eternal security of the believer is a Gospel Truth, but Arminian theology denies this as we see next, or at least does not unequivocally affirm it.

...But whether they are capable, through negligence, of forsaking again the first beginning of their life in Christ, of again returning to this present evil world, of turning away from the holy doctrine which was delivered them, of losing a good conscience, of becoming devoid of grace, that must be more particularly determined out of the Holy Scripture, before we ourselves can teach it with the full persuasion of our mind.

This shows that the Arminians could not quite convince themselves that the believer is eternally secure in Christ. In other words, it might be possible to lose one's salvation. Which is FALSE.

So what we find in the Five Articles of Remonstrance is a mishmash of truth and error. But the Five Points of Calvinism are even worse in that they present a false gospel. In view of this Bible-believing Christians can be neither Calvinists nor Arminians. Simply Biblicists.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The atonement made on the cross is sufficient for all,
there is no doubt Calvin taught this. But it is not efficatious
to the lost, those who reject Christ. This is why the Jews are cast out
at this present time. If Christ atoned for a man's sins than that man will be saved.
If the man never comes to faith then Christ did not die for him as he rejected
HIM. Hyper Calvinists will deny this, they state that Christ died only for His sheep
and not sufficient for all.

This has spllt the Reformed Church for the past 100 years.

uh huh

and low and behold has been splitting this forum for about 2 months now with the non Calvinists distinctly having the better say

the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus died for all

every

single

person

everyone

whether or not a person rejects the gift of forgiveness through Christ as given to mankind by Father God does not mean that Jesus blood was not shed for that person

as the Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, salvation is available to all

as has been presented mulitple times in other threads recently, this does not mean universalism

it means whosoever WILL

 

[Whispered]

Some people have access to *the fountain of youth*.

Now if only we could find that sucker, bottle it, brand it and put it on retail shelves, we could make a fortune and support a ton of Christian charities.
*sigh* Oh, well.

 

[Whispered]

Calvinism does not teach that Christ died for ALL.

That is 100% true.
We have a member on board who subscribes to the TULIP principle in their Denominational practice. They have said repeatedly and referred repeatedly to Christ, dying for those whom the Father gave him.

Christ died only for those God predestined before anything was at al created, to be saved.
Think about what that says about God.