One Talent

TLC209 · Nov 17, 2019

Those are both the same faith. There is only two kinds of faith. Faith with works and faith that has no good works. The second is not valid and dead. The faith with works is the faith we are to yield and God helps us achieve this and strengthens our faith over time through our growth and maturing.

Faith comes through hearing and hearing the Word of God. Those who belong to God hear His voice and follow Him. It is by grace THROUGH FAITH that we are saved. The faith in believing in Jesus Christ as the true Son of God. You had to hear about it to produce this faith. You have to act on this belief in order for it to be faithful. Or else your faith is dead. There is only one type of true faith. Without faith you cannot please God.

Hebrews 11:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

ieuan · Nov 17, 2019

I think Judges1318 has answered very well and some pertinent biblical quotations, very good indeed.
Maybe he should take over the thread?
just joking.

And I must say Posthuman.

And there have been many good and honest posts and I thank you.

The gift given is faith, or by another name grace, Grace to see the beauty of creation and know there is a Creator.
Even the distant tribe of the earth know there is a God, all men know and have no excuse.

So why then are some saved, and some fall away. Why do some have a full knwoldge (His gift and some not)
Are there two types of grace and of those two given in different levels of grace.
I would say yes, there are different degrees of grace, one type general to all mankind with its inherent blessing,
but not eternal and non salvific and a slavific grace that changes a man from the inside out. Where he is given
a ne wheart and the old heart removed by God, the new heart is soft and loving, the old heart hard and bitter,
and we go to the aprable of the sower (thank you all who quoted this in your replies) and the enw heart will
lead a man to conversion, as in the case of Paul and although in the midst of persectuing the people of God
(are there anyone ehre who persecute other Chrstians) is truck by the voice of the Lord and is blinded and changed
in a moment, in an instant and calls His maker Lord.

The sower and the seed amplphies this small aprable, in gretaer detail, even shows some emn haveknowledge
and find beauty in the dcotirnes, in the Good News, who even worship and sing praises to God, but are never truly
saved because their faith is throttled by the trial of the world and other just lose interest and give up. Their hearts
are not ploughed ground, the seed does not penetrate, all metaphors for what God is doing in the soul. Unless
the heart is ploughed, unless takes away the old heart and gives a new heart then a man will not convert.

And we know faith (grace) is given by God, it is a gift. In the third man the grace given was not enduring, it could
not lead to conversion, because he was not born again by the Spirit. Born again of the Spirit is synonymous with
being given a new heart. And we know a man must be born again of the Spirit of God to see the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus told Nicodemas so, and this is not a parable. Nicodemas a great prince of Israel, a Pharisee of Pharisees,
a member of the highest council in Israel knew this not. And Jesus had to instruct this high man (in his eyes) and
he was born again before he came to the Lord, but he was not converted. Nicodemus received grace spoke up for the
Lord, defended Him in the Sanhendren, as if the Lord needed defending. Yet he ruined hsi own reputation to speak
up for a criminal (according to the Jews) and finally took down the body of our Lord from the cross to be covered
in His blood.

So dear brothers, I hope I have answered my own question to your satisfaction. There it is, the gift is the gift of grace.
If it is not given as in a new heart, if the man is not born again of the Spirit he will fail, his faith will be dead, he will
wonder away, he will not undertsand that God is a loving God and a=call all men to repentence, but they will not lsiten
until given faith from above. It is a warning, this parable, to those who imagine they are saved, a warning to examine
themselves.

And I adjure all of us, to examine ourselevs and to see if we are int he Spirit when we speak one to another. Learning
in allgentleness, not willing that anyone be offended, but rather praying that we will unite in longing the bst for
each other. We should have no bitter words of recriminations between us, we should not carry old enmities, but be
quick to forgive our enemies.

Thank you all for bearing with me.
It just remains for me to quote the passage in ezekiel to show the words of the Lord regrding the enw heart.
But I am sure some of you know it already.

TLC209 · Nov 17, 2019

ieuan said:

Faith is believing. Blind faith is believing in something not seen. Grace is Jesus Christ. Grace is a gift. Jesus Christ is that gift given to all men.

We can receieve God's gift, His Son whom He sent to die for us, through faith. Belief leads to repentance, leads to conversion/baptism and receiving His Holy Spirit. A new heart, new Spirit and a renewed mind.

The parable is saying all 3 men were given talents. And do take heed that all 3 men are servants of the Master. The men who used the talents well and brought forth a crop and yielded fruit were received gladly and given Honor. This can be interpreted as us as servants using our gifts (gifts of the Spirit or gifts God birthed us with) to spread the Word and work for the Kingdom. This is spoken about in the parable of the true vine. He prunes those who produce fruit so that they will be even more fruitful.

The parable of the seed/Word ties in nicely because it illustrates the bountifullness of good soil producing crop 40, 60, 100fold. We can see that this is the soil or the condition of ones heart that produces growth that leads to being fruitful. The other spoil did not allow for growth or fruit. Furthermore if you read about the vine and Jesus being the true fine, it is only remaining with God that one can bear fruit.

So keeping this in mind, the one who is utterly different from the other two in this parable about the talent, it describes him as someone who is fearful of his master and speaks wrongly on his masters character. He refuses to work the talent that was given him, but rather harbors it and bears no fruit. So you see this servant did not love His master in his heart, nor did he joyfully share his talent or work his talent for good use, and became in rebellion against his master.

This parable has nothing to do with money. It is how we use the gifts God has given us. Some have gift of teaching, healing, exortation, faith, prophecy, etc etc. These gifts belong to God for His use and His purposes.

It can also be implied that all the 3 men received grace as the gift/talent and only one of them did nothing with the grace he received. If we use grace as the talent, then the other two on the contrary produced fruit and yielded a crop in multitude. Again this aligns with the parable of sowing seed and bearing a crop. And so we know that the Word is the seed. We also know it is the Word who became flesh. And it is by the Word we are saved through faith.

So if we use the Word to represent grace/talent, and if all 3 received the Word (grace) and only one of them was disobedient, unfruitful and a lazy servant who thought he could do the bare mimimum. The one was sadly mistaken and cast into the fire. Shows we have a responsibility with the Word. And that is by means of producing a crop. Multiplying.

This serves as a warning to those who claim to be servants of God, not to sit down and do nothing with the gift God has given you. The grace we received through Jesus Christ. For some of us it is our jobs to till the soil. Some plant seed and some water the seed. But all is work done for the Kingdom of God. Let us not be unfruitful servants. God will judge His people/servants.

John 15:1-8 “I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.
“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples. This brings great glory to my Father.

Nehemiah6 · Nov 17, 2019

Judges1318 said:

It should be obvious from that fact that this person did absolutely nothing for God and Christ. He was not really a true believer who served God.

Judges1318 · Nov 17, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

Yes, quite true. The one talent person is not saved. He does NOTHING with the knowledge of God he has received. He doesn't even share it with someone who will bring increase to it. But I think it important that we understand that service to God through our money and ministry (your interpretation of the talent) is not a measure of a saving relationship with God, but rather obedience to the commands of God is the measure of saving faith.

Proverbs 21:3
"To do what is right and just is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice."

Mark 12:33
"....to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Because the penalty for not bringing increase to the talent is eternal damnation we know that the talent given to people is not the potential for the sacrifice of one's service in the kingdom but is instead the knowledge of God leading to the obedience of faith.

ieuan · Nov 17, 2019

Thank you all: TLC209, Nehemiah6 and Judges 1318

I agree with you, the man was not saved, he had a false impression of the One True God
and he did not sue what was revealed/given to him to grow and proclaim the Word of God
he was never fully saved, not effectually saved, not saved at all despite having been given
some grace/knowledge of God. What was given to him was remoed and he died in his sin.

This aprable is also a warning to those in the Church who at first show great joy as shown
in the parable of the sower, but d=fade away, and end up not believing in God at all. The true
believr is given a new heart, a heart of flesh, and ends up converted, i.e. truning from sin
and turning to God in prayer and is devoted all the days of his life.

Thank you all, all who have contributed positively to my question.
Here is the biblical quotation relating to my question:

Ezekiel 36:25-36 English Standard Version (ESV)
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses.
and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit
I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart
of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful
to obey my rules.[a] 28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my
people, and I will be your God. 29 And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. And I will
summon the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine upon you. 30 I will make the fruit
of the tree and the increase of the field abundant, that you may never again suffer the disgrace
of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that
were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations.
32 It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord God; let that be known to you.
Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel.

Ezekiel 18:31 King James Version (KJV)

31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed;
and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezekiel 36:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

seed_time_harvest · Nov 17, 2019

ieuan said:

Mailmandan gives a very detailed answer and he tries to answer the question
also using biblical quotations.

In paragraph 1 he is correct, talent are money but because of the hidden spiritual meanings in parables they represent faith or grace

paragraph 2. he is correct - not a true believer, an important distinction, for there are wolves among the sheep
be careful not to judge a man by outward appearances, many Christians do their good works in secret
Elijah complained to the Lord that only he was saved, but unknown to Elijah the Lord had 4 thousand of His people
stored away as it were, known only to himself.

paragraph 3. also correct

I agree with Mailandan.

There remains that question why are some truly saved and some although displaying great joy at first fall away gradually or immediately?

The bible says that those who have been Born again of Incorruptible seed WILL seek to purify themselves even as they are Pure.

seed_time_harvest · Nov 17, 2019

I may be In error,was adam perfect In the garden?

ieuan · Nov 17, 2019

2 Corinthians 4 King James Version (KJV)

1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness,
nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth
commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine
unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants
for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts,
to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God,
and not of us.

8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;

9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus
might be made manifest in our body.

11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus
might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore
have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus,
and shall present us with you.

15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving
of many redound to the glory of God.

16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is
renewed day by day.

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding
and eternal weight of glory;

18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen:
for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

ieuan · Nov 17, 2019

I think this thread is just about done
Thank you all for contributing
it has been a refreshing discussion.

tourist · Nov 17, 2019

MessageOfTheCross said:

When the word 'remnant is mentioned in the bible it is always referring to Israel and not the church.

tourist · Nov 17, 2019

ieuan said:

There may be certain members who might believe that this thread has only just begun.

presidente · Nov 17, 2019

ieuan said:

Grace makes more sense to me if I had to choose between the two, but I don't think grace quite captures it. It might include what some theologians call 'common grace', but I am not sure the term is used quite that broadly in scripture.

ieuan · Nov 17, 2019

Yes, exactly Presidente, I did not want to use the term as people
tend to jump on anywords associated with one particular belief
system or church.

Yes all good things come from God, there is God's providence where He supplies
all the needs for creation to continue to exist, light, the sun, rain, food, shelter etc.
and there is grace that illumes the ehart of man and make hi differen to the animal
kindom, in that he worships a creator even if wrongly as some men worship tress
amnd other worship fire. This is generally known as general grace, so call it common
grace meaning it is shared in different degrees with humanity.

But for God's people there is special effectual grace, where God's people are given faith
and some given special gifts, preching, prophesising, teaching, administration and so on.
There are gifts given to artists and science, there are gifts given to doctors to heal.
All good gift come from God and in varying degrees.

King David said I would rather be a doorkeeper . . . menaing he recognised that some
will be before him in the kingdom of heaven. How gifted was davbid, and although we
have effectual grace and are saved, how much more was david gven by God to be able
to write those psalms.

A very positive resposne, thank you.

posthuman · Nov 17, 2019

seed_time_harvest said:

God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.
And there was evening, and there was morning — the sixth day.
(Genesis 1:31)

_______________________________________

TLC209 · Nov 17, 2019

These scriptures depict "grace" as Jesus Christ.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

We can see that Truth and Grace came by Jesus Christ. Jesus said I am the truth, the way, and the life. So if He is the truth and not only the truth came by Him but is Him, we can also see that He is also grace. The scripture shows He was full of grace.

Jesus Christ is God's grace and it is because of this grace that we are saved! If you take this interpretation and apply it you can see that it aligns. Take the following passage.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Now if you revise it and use Jesus Christ to represent grace:

Ephesians 2:8 For by Jesus Christ are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

ieuan · Nov 18, 2019

THIS THREAD IS CLOSED NOW

PennEd · Nov 18, 2019

Judges1318 said:

That is correct.
And we see from the parable of the sower that the talent entrusted to a person is the knowledge of the kingdom (IOW, the word of God).

From the parable of the talents, Matthew 25:29...

"For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him"

From the parable of the sower, Matthew 13:11-12...

"The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."

So we see that the talent given and the seed sown is the word of God. People who don't act on the knowledge of God they have received in this life will be condemned to the place of torment, while those who do act on it will enter into the kingdom and share the Master's happiness.

I like this rendering. Thank you.

I am of the belief that the 3rd soil may also be saved.

What do you think?

Judges1318 · Nov 18, 2019

PennEd said:

I too believe the 3rd soil is the soil of a believing (but struggling) saved person.

I've spent the bulk of my Christian life there. Only in these last few years have I seen the soil of my heart even remotely begin the transformation to the fourth type of soil. All praise to the master Husbandman for making that happen. He knows how to get the job done.

UnoiAmarah · Nov 18, 2019

DB7 said:

I would be more careful regarding who you judge a flake, especially if you can't prove that it didn't come from the LORD.

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.1 Thess 5:21

If you can't prove it then you are just making an faithless assumption.

DB7 said:

I didn't tell any Christian to do anything, so excuse me if I don't understand your words without knowledge.

DB7 said:

So are you telling your friends not to believe every person, but to test them to see whether they are from God?

I wouldn't pull out scripture especially when your words lack any truth, which anyone can examine by reviewing what I said and what you claim I said.

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