Should wine be used for the Lord's Supper?

[7seasrekeyed]

lucky we got the right opinion hahaha

but really who objected? they seem to me like people in John 6 who get offended of Jesus' teaching that. i feel bad for the new pastors starting up they have to deal with grown up babies always demanding special treatment.
my church serves grape juice, i disagree but i keep my mouth shut like a big boy

well that's the thing and one reason I object so strenuoulsy (as do some others here who understand what is at stake) to the ideology of Calvinism

for one thing, the disregard and actual distain for women as it appears in this thread, is a direct result of following Calvin

I actually do not believe women should be pastors, but there is plenty a woman can and should do

the op of this thread shows distain for women and having read some of Calvin's remarks, which I am going to include or possibly draw attention to with a new thread, it will be shown that Calvins' attitude was not the attitude of Jesus

we tend to think along the lines of 'Calvinism adheres to a particular understanding of scripture'...actually a hodge podge of unrelated but sewn together verses that have been ripped out of context to form an ideology rather than a doctrine...when the actual truth is that Calvinists also adhere to his sermons, letters and commentary

so again I ask, who are we going to follow that cherry murderous you know what Calvin, or Jesus?

see, this attitude springs straight from men who would like to blame the state of the world on Eve even though God held Adam responsible

we can also ask, does rebirth in Christ remove all sin or not?

sadly, it does not appear to do so in the economy of Calvinism

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The spiritual meaning is what is most important and to use fermented corrupted grape juice to represent the blood of Jesus is wrong. Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Alcohol is proven to reduce your mental and physical wellbeing so i see it as sin. Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit so don't corrupt it.
Joh_6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Why use alcoholic wine if you can use unfermented wine and remember the meaning in the same way. Jesus is going to drink it with us in Heaven and i don't think it will be fermented and alcoholic in heaven.

malarkey

if you do not care to use actual wine, you go by your conscience

the objection in your post is the broad brush of condemnation you apply to those who do not agree with you and THAT, with no scripture to show for it

this is your opinion and is so easily disproven from scripture that a monkey wearing Walmart eyeglasses could do it (humor)

I understand there are people who have a problem with anything alcoholic either because they had a drinking problem at one time or simply because they think wine is a 4 letter word

I have no problem with that

but trying to squeeze (pardon the pun ) new meaning out of scritpure to fit that possibility illustrates a desire to USE scripture for one's own conscience which we already know (from scripture) is the actual problem

if you feel guilty then don't do it.

but don't play 'Holy Spirit' with other people and thereby illustrate your own 'weakness'

ps...Jesus states He will not drink again until we are in resurrected bodies (if you are drinking how is it some thing we are simply spirits...but I digress)

WHAT does that have to do with remembering Him as He asked? nothing.

Jesus is going to drink it with us in Heaven and i don't think it will be fermented and alcoholic in heaven

well we don't know then, do we....however YOU thinking something does not make it a fact

it is your opinion

 

[posthuman]

Leavening and yeast are the same things. It makes bread rise and wine ferment. New wine is unfermented. That's all.

what Melach points out here:

Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

indicates to me that the notion "new wine = non-alcoholic" is wrong.

 

[John146]

That's not what new wine is.

Here's an article on the different claims regarding this, including yours:

https://credohouse.org/blog/did-jesus-turn-water-into-wine-or-grape-juice

I’ve shown you Scripture, you show me an article...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

How about applying some sound logic. Trace the history instead of making unfounded and insulting assertions. You're welcome to your opinion regarding the role of women in the church, but there is no need to be an ignorant chauvinist.

IMO, he is using history to slam women

he has repeatedly done this throughout his career here

just like Calvin in his writings

 

[7seasrekeyed]

http://www.umc.org/who-we-are/methodist-history-controversy-communion-and-welchs-grape-juice

This outlines the history of the Women's Christian Temperance Union in this regard.

haha

my guess is that they didn't like the men folk out drinking

but overeating is usually fine

I'd appreciate some appropriate attention to detail when being represented.

oh the irony

 

[Scarfin]

read about yeast in the bible,, if you think there is no connection with your question and the yeast just say it

 

[seed_time_harvest]

There was mention of taking communion at home. What do people do, or suggest for this? I am basically housebound so this would give me comfort in a way. (Some of the household are Catholic so might have to be ready to carry out CPR on them if they saw it).

If you have bread and water you can use that.Any thing respectful can be used to symbolize HIS blood and anything respectful can be used to symbolize HIS body.Remember you are remembering and honoring HIS sacrifice.

Some have taken communion with all the fancy bells and whistles so to speak but their hearts are far away from honoring the WORD of GOD (JESUS) that came to earth fully GOD and fully man manifested to the flesh to be the LAMB of GOD.

 

[posthuman]

read about yeast in the bible,, if you think there is no connection with your question and the yeast just say it

yes; i was just doing that.

But leaven doesn't always indicate sin.

the bread of firstfruits ((what we call pentecost)) was leavened:

​

And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord. Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the Lord.​

(Leviticus 23: 15-17)​

​

​

the bread of a peace offering was leavened:

And this is the law of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which he shall offer unto the Lord. If he offer it for a thanksgiving, then he shall offer with the sacrifice of thanksgiving unleavened cakes mingled with oil, and unleavened wafers anointed with oil, and cakes mingled with oil, of fine flour, fried. Besides the cakes, he shall offer for his offering leavened bread with the sacrifice of thanksgiving of his peace offerings. ​

(Leviticus 7:11-13) ​

​

​

in neither case was it burned but instead offered as an heave or wave offering - and then eaten by the priests as holy. with leaven.
there is a case made about the shewbread, too - it's not specified as either unleavened or leavened. the prevailing opinion is that it was unleavened, because, basically, oh it must be because leaven is always evil and unacceptable. but here are two instances ((above ↑)) where it's accepted, even mandated. so that argument is shaky. a more convoluted argument that it must have been leavened is made via the various Greek words for bread used in the NT.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I’ve shown you Scripture, you show me an article...

The article contains Scripture specifically refuting the idea that "new wine" is simply grape juice, and that it had an intoxicating effect.

I don't reinvent wheels. If I can find a good article, I use it.

It's called being smart, and also realizing Christianity is a community, and I can draw upon trustworthy brothers who have written articles that reflect my conviction.

 

[John146]

The article contains Scripture specifically refuting the idea that "new wine" is simply grape juice, and that it had an intoxicating effect.

I don't reinvent wheels. If I can find a good article, I use it.

It's called being smart, and also realizing Christianity is a community, and I can draw upon trustworthy brothers who have written articles that reflect my conviction.

The website you gave is not credible in my view. They’re not Bible believers but pretenders using various new versions as so called scripture. Also, their view on Romans 9 is wrong.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The website you gave is not credible in my view. They’re not Bible believers but pretenders using various new versions as so called scripture. Also, their view on Romans 9 is wrong.

Are you a KJV Only guy?

Stating someone's view is wrong sounds like you believe you have an infallible understanding of Scripture

By the way, the same Greek word used in Ephesians 5:18 (definitely talking about wine) is used in the case of the wine Jesus created for the wedding feast.

The word doesn't need to be the same anyways...the effect was intoxicating.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The website you gave is not credible in my view. They’re not Bible believers but pretenders using various new versions as so called scripture. Also, their view on Romans 9 is wrong.

Suppose I say you're not a Bible believer because you use a defective version of the Bible like the KJV?

I mean, that's exactly what you are saying about them.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The website you gave is not credible in my view. They’re not Bible believers but pretenders using various new versions as so called scripture. Also, their view on Romans 9 is wrong.

I mean, they're not the sharpest crayons in the box because they are dispensationalists, but I think they are believers.

 

[John146]

Suppose I say you're not a Bible believer because you use a defective version of the Bible like the KJV?

I mean, that's exactly what you are saying about them.

Are you a Bible believer? Do you believe the words of your Bible to be the words of God?

 

[Ghoti2]

The website you gave is not credible in my view. They’re not Bible believers but pretenders using various new versions as so called scripture. Also, their view on Romans 9 is wrong.

Is this another person who thinks God wrote the KJV? LOL

 

[John146]

I mean, they're not the sharpest crayons in the box because they are dispensationalists, but I think they are believers.

I’m not doubting their salvation, I mean they are elect come on😎, I mean I don’t think they believe their bibles 100%.

 

[John146]

Is this another person who thinks God wrote the KJV? LOL

God inspired? Yes, every word.

 

[Ghoti2]

God inspired? Yes, every word.

What makes you think the committee of translators were inspired by God? Have you ever read their ingratiating letter to King James about their work that he hired them to write for him?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Are you a Bible believer? Do you believe the words of your Bible to be the words of God?

Of course.

It's the word of God insofar as it is a translation of it, and I need a translation.

I don't claim the translation is infallible though.

I am educated in accounting, and I understand the concept of materiality. If my translation is 99.99 percent accurate, it is materially the word of God. A small scribal error doesn't negate this. I don't need to understand the Greek/Hebrew and possess the original manuscripts to have this assurance.