Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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There is nothing here about losing salvation. 1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).
What do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel?
To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).
What do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel?
Works-salvationists tend to ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stress “obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which “follow” saving faith in Christ are unto righteousness, as if we are saved by works.
There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants/slaves of sin unto death, or servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness.
When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."
Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."
Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..
Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.
There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants/slaves of sin unto death, or servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness.
When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."
Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."
Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..
Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.
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1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
1. The gospel has been preached to them and they have received and are standing on (believed)
2. It is this gospel they have believed that saves them IF they hold fast
3. If they don't hold fast then they have believed in vain
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We have 2 laws, aren't you aware?
Rom 7:21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me.
Either way, it is obedience to or disobedience to the law that saves or condemns.
Rom 7:21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me.
Either way, it is obedience to or disobedience to the law that saves or condemns.
Babes are quarelsome because until we learn to Love, language remain confused. The Lord has ansewred all my questions but that dosent mean I Love as He does, tho I wish othors would have all their questions answered. But as mentioned neither does that change us. One day soon we shall all be changed, those that have grown up in His Love will have part in the first resurrection and rule in Love with Him eternally. The rest of the dead are not raised intil the thousand years are fulfilled. What christians have a hard time to comprehend is that "Jesus is the saviour of all men, espescially of them that believe." "The sea will give up the dead that are in them, death and hell will give up the dead that are in then and everyone will be judged (receive) according to His works." In this sence salvation can't be lost any more that God could be Lost, as Salvation belongs to God. But here I am trying to bring reconciliation whem we have not yet learned to Love as God Loves, and still have diferent languages. The Lord also told me: I dont need your help. We dont learn the Love of God by trying to help but by sufferimg with Him to cease from sin. Simce this is the diferance between work under law, and Grace as influence of God by His Spirit to forget about ourselves in the reconciliation of the cross and walk in newness of life; while this is very apealing it dosent change the suffering imvolved to get past ourselves, so that not many are permitted to go on to perfection. I used to think the abcence of Love was full of violence but now realise it's full of ourselves, living to take advantage. Babes in christ still live this way. It sais they will be saved through fire but loose their reward: they will not become etwrnal beings to rule with Christ: no more death means no more seperation from God but does not mean everyone becomes eternal beings. There will be a new heaven and earth...
Babes are quarelsome because until we learn to Love, language remain confused. The Lord has ansewred all my questions but that dosent mean I Love as He does, tho I wish othors would have all their questions answered. But as mentioned neither does that change us. One day soon we shall all be changed, those that have grown up in His Love will have part in the first resurrection and rule in Love with Him eternally. The rest of the dead are not raised intil the thousand years are fulfilled. What christians have a hard time to comprehend is that "Jesus is the saviour of all men, espescially of them that believe." "The sea will give up the dead that are in them, death and hell will give up the dead that are in then and everyone will be judged (receive) according to His works." In this sence salvation can't be lost any more that God could be Lost, as Salvation belongs to God. But here I am trying to bring reconciliation whem we have not yet learned to Love as God Loves, and still have diferent languages. The Lord also told me: I dont need your help. We dont learn the Love of God by trying to help but by sufferimg with Him to cease from sin. Simce this is the diferance between work under law, and Grace as influence of God by His Spirit to forget about ourselves in the reconciliation of the cross and walk in newness of life; while this is very apealing it dosent change the suffering imvolved to get past ourselves, so that not many are permitted to go on to perfection. I used to think the abcence of Love was full of violence but now realise it's full of ourselves, living to take advantage. Babes in christ still live this way. It sais they will be saved through fire but loose their reward: they will not become etwrnal beings to rule with Christ: no more death means no more seperation from God but does not mean everyone becomes eternal beings. There will be a new heaven and earth...
You continue to miss the point and it's because you teach salvation by works. Being a slave to sin leads to death, just as becoming a slave/servant of obedience leads to/is unto righteousness. It's not about unbelievers performing multiple acts of obedience/works that eventually lead to righteousness/obtaining salvation by works.
*As I already explained in post #3,784 - Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness." At what point does that happen?
Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..
Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.
It's your teaching that is not found here.
*As I already explained in post #3,784 - Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness." At what point does that happen?
Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..
Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.
It's your teaching that is not found here.
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It is very simple. The gospel has been preached to them and those who have received it and hold fast to the word (the gospel) preached to them are saved. Those who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached to them in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 demonstrated that they believed in vain - "without cause or without effect, to no purpose." In other words, did not truly believe and were never saved. Belief was never firmly rooted and established from the start.
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Ok, maybe.
The Corinthians unbelief about Jesus resurrection could be as a result of:
1. Them having heard the gospel and never believed it
2. Them having having heard the gospel, believing it initially, failing to hold on and starting to believe other false teachings
3. Them never hearing the gospel at all
The answer is simple, very simple:
1 Cor 15:1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
The Corinthians unbelief about Jesus resurrection could be as a result of:
1. Them having heard the gospel and never believed it
2. Them having having heard the gospel, believing it initially, failing to hold on and starting to believe other false teachings
3. Them never hearing the gospel at all
The answer is simple, very simple:
1 Cor 15:1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Not what Paul said.
1 Cor 15:1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
1. Remind you of the gospel which you received and stand firm
Means, they believed in the gospel. It doesn't mean some believed and some failed to believe, Paul is talking to them that believed in the gospel warning them.
2. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you
Means the gospel saves only IF they hold firmly otherwise IF they let go, their belief is in vain.
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The bible says, you are either:
1. Slaves to sin, which leads to death
or
2. Slaves to obedience, which leads to righteousness
There is no 3rd option: Slaves to righteousness, which leads to obedience- which is what you teach.
For better understanding, the statement can also read; Slaves to obedience, which results to righteousness
1. Slaves to sin, which leads to death
or
2. Slaves to obedience, which leads to righteousness
There is no 3rd option: Slaves to righteousness, which leads to obedience- which is what you teach.
For better understanding, the statement can also read; Slaves to obedience, which results to righteousness
Yup. Doesn't change anything I said.
The opening passage in this chapter is absolutely essential. It lays out in crystal clear terms what EXACTLY THE Gospel unto Salvation is.
It in NO WAY proves ANYTHING about the possibility of someone who is a born again Child of the One true King, being disowned by that King, losing their sonship, and gathered and tossed into everlasting fire. In fact NO passage does that.
The same Author that said if Christ didn't rise you have believed in vain, said he was convinced NOTHING, and he went out his way to define NOTHING, could separate you from the love He has toward you:
Romans 8:37-39 New King James Version (NKJV)
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The opening passage in this chapter is absolutely essential. It lays out in crystal clear terms what EXACTLY THE Gospel unto Salvation is.
It in NO WAY proves ANYTHING about the possibility of someone who is a born again Child of the One true King, being disowned by that King, losing their sonship, and gathered and tossed into everlasting fire. In fact NO passage does that.
The same Author that said if Christ didn't rise you have believed in vain, said he was convinced NOTHING, and he went out his way to define NOTHING, could separate you from the love He has toward you:
Romans 8:37-39 New King James Version (NKJV)
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Hebrews 5:7 - who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear.
The writer of Hebrews who was obviously aware of the reality of Jesus' death speaks of His resurrection (Hebrews 13:20) which is being saved from death. Jesus was never in danger of facing spiritual death by being cast into hell.
The writer of Hebrews who was obviously aware of the reality of Jesus' death speaks of His resurrection (Hebrews 13:20) which is being saved from death. Jesus was never in danger of facing spiritual death by being cast into hell.
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